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Ultimate Geek
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  # 1744258 20-Mar-2017 09:33
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Maxcat:

Agreed. TIVO is the villain here.


I thank Hybrid for trying. I think they were stuffed by many issues that were outside their control.


In time the marketing and supply chain of TIVO in NZ will go down as a 'how-not-to' sale story (similarly with Lightbox..) looked at by academics.


However what IS in control is TIVO is still operating.


They are just not working in the interests of NZ/Oz customers.


 


 


 


I absolutly acknowledge all that. But that does not mean to say a supplier has no responsibility to a consumer. In nz that is a high bar due to the consumer guarantees act backed up by the fair trading act.

A consumer has rights. In this case it appears telecom / spark is the last man standing. Wether the issue is winnable remains to be seen - many here seem to think not.

But others are pointing out weaknesses in sparks position - for example they dont send out terms and conditions and that they were selling units less than five years ago, and there was no "fine print" highlighted in their advertising, and these are a high end product so a reasonable life expectancy could be longer than bog standard off the shelf " consumerable".

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  # 1744265 20-Mar-2017 09:40
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But you never paid $940

 

You paid $300 5+ years ago and the other was a freebie if you signed up for 12 months to BB with spark.

 

If anything you total lost is $300 ($300 over 5 years is $5 a week for the service), if you want to waste all this time and more money then that's up to you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 




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  # 1744280 20-Mar-2017 10:07
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tripp:

But you never paid $940


You paid $300 5+ years ago and the other was a freebie if you signed up for 12 months to BB with spark.


If anything you total lost is $300 ($300 over 5 years is $5 a week for the service), if you want to waste all this time and more money then that's up to you.


 


 


 


 


The $940 gives a measure of anticipated quality and thus helps define a reasonable view of durability. Its not a $150 viewsonic pvr from the warehouse. I think a reasonable person would expect an expensive piece of kit to last longer.

I paid 300 more than 5 years ago. Correct. That is why the issue of durability has to be tested. I think it was actuslly 6 to 7 years ago so its not like i am even trying to claim a 10 year durability. Though actually 10 years for an expensive piece of kit may not be unreasonable.

The CGA covers free things. But it wasnt free they got 12 months of charges from me as consideration for that deal.

$5 a week doesn't come into it. Remedies are clear under the CGA.

Telecom valued the second tivo at $420. So what i paid duing the year less $420 is essentially what i paid for broad band fees.

Nothing is "free" in this life!


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  # 1744286 20-Mar-2017 10:16
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minimoke:
tripp:

 

minimoke: Oki said i would look st tsand cs. So i have had a look at the tivo service terms.

These were last updated on 1 march 2017 - yes that is the correct date

Under termination of service there is no mention of 31 october 2017.

The supply service is essentially never ending barring tivo ceasing the service in order to comply with legal obligations or court orders.

There is no mention at all of termination of service.

 

 

 

Like I said, if you think you have a case and not happy with the email from the "supplier" of the service then file paper work with the DT.  You might get lucky and the "supplier" might want to just settle the issue without wasting their time and money on trying to fight this.

 

 

 

Just don't be asking for $5000 because you think you have damages. 

 

 

 

My personal view on this having been there done that is that you won't have a case and just wasting everyone's time.  I would think the "supplier" will see it this way and just throw you money to make you go away unless someone is really bored there and wants to kill any other action that others might bring.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just remember they will get a copy of your paper work however you may not get a copy of theirs so you have to have everything in order and be ready for surprises.

 



The email from the supplier is worthless. The terms and conditions dated 1 march 2017 says these terms will prevail. The terms contain no mention of a 31 octobrr cease date. That makes these terms very misleading

I have never said i would be claiming $5000. That is just ridiculous. I am simply exploring my rights as a consumer for a high end device (retailed at $940 - so expectations are very high)

I look forward to the paperwork from telecom. The only terms relevant to the purchase of a tivo are the terms around the sale /purchase of the tivo. I know there are secondary terms but i suggest they are subserviant to the primary terms. I am not looking at claiming for loss of tivo service. My claim is likely to be based on the sale of a product that contsins a known but not acknowledged defect (licence expires 31 october 2017) and failure of unit to do as advertised. For a unit purchased within 5 years.

 

 

 

The T&Cs I presented to you were from 2010. It didn't say it had plans to exit in 2017 either but hey, things can change in 7 years.


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  # 1744288 20-Mar-2017 10:24
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minimoke:
tripp:

 

But you never paid $940

 

 

 

You paid $300 5+ years ago and the other was a freebie if you signed up for 12 months to BB with spark.

 

 

 

If anything you total lost is $300 ($300 over 5 years is $5 a week for the service), if you want to waste all this time and more money then that's up to you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


The $940 gives a measure of anticipated quality and thus helps define a reasonable view of durability. Its not a $150 viewsonic pvr from the warehouse. I think a reasonable person would expect an expensive piece of kit to last longer.

I paid 300 more than 5 years ago. Correct. That is why the issue of durability has to be tested. I think it was actuslly 6 to 7 years ago so its not like i am even trying to claim a 10 year durability. Though actually 10 years for an expensive piece of kit may not be unreasonable.

The CGA covers free things. But it wasnt free they got 12 months of charges from me as consideration for that deal.

$5 a week doesn't come into it. Remedies are clear under the CGA.

Telecom valued the second tivo at $420. So what i paid duing the year less $420 is essentially what i paid for broad band fees.

Nothing is "free" in this life!

 

Who said the box is $940?  It includes a lifetime sub to the Tivo service which is in the US is not cheap. Lets say the box is $600. In 2009 a $600 PVR is not expensive, so there is no excess durability or quality to be had

 

If you did not take up the free Tivo, you would not have had to pay 12 months charges?? You would, with Spark or oif you left, which who that was

 

 

 

 


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  # 1744290 20-Mar-2017 10:25
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minimoke:
The $940 gives a measure of anticipated quality and thus helps define a reasonable view of durability. Its not a $150 viewsonic pvr from the warehouse. I think a reasonable person would expect an expensive piece of kit to last longer.

 

Price has nothing to do with this. I would expect a $150 PVR to last just as long and be of the same acceptable quality as a $900 device. The CGA is there to ensure this happens.

 

 




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Ultimate Geek
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  # 1744293 20-Mar-2017 10:33
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tdgeek:

Who said the box is $940?  It includes a lifetime sub to the Tivo service which is in the US is not cheap. Lets say the box is $600. In 2009 a $600 PVR is not expensive, so there is no excess durability or quality to be had



So we are back to a "lifetime" expectation.

At no time ever did telecom say words to the effect of "includes x years free tivo licence" - that is fine print that might have been worth mentioning at the time.

That they didnt is arguably misleading - but that is a discussion for another day



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  # 1744305 20-Mar-2017 10:34
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sbiddle:

minimoke:
The $940 gives a measure of anticipated quality and thus helps define a reasonable view of durability. Its not a $150 viewsonic pvr from the warehouse. I think a reasonable person would expect an expensive piece of kit to last longer.


Price has nothing to do with this. I would expect a $150 PVR to last just as long and be of the same acceptable quality as a $900 device. The CGA is there to ensure this happens.


 


Even i wouldnt try to claim that!

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  # 1744306 20-Mar-2017 10:36
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Looking at the IRD site and the depreciation/ life cycle information. It has been at least 5 years since TiVo has been sold new in NZ. The guidelines I read indicate that these devices have passed  the end of life cycle and with depreciation would have zero book value. Whilst it's a pain that this has happened ( similar to Igloo) TiVo is dead(in Australasia) and it is time to move on. Nothing will be gained by wasting tax payer money making pointless claims under the CGA.   





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1744310 20-Mar-2017 10:42
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minimoke:
tdgeek:

 

Who said the box is $940?  It includes a lifetime sub to the Tivo service which is in the US is not cheap. Lets say the box is $600. In 2009 a $600 PVR is not expensive, so there is no excess durability or quality to be had

 



So we are back to a "lifetime" expectation.

At no time ever did telecom say words to the effect of "includes x years free tivo licence" - that is fine print that might have been worth mentioning at the time.

That they didnt is arguably misleading - but that is a discussion for another day

 

So Spark shout be telling everybody now buying a 3G phone that it will ultimately become useless even though they have no idea at this point when that will be?

 

 




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  # 1744347 20-Mar-2017 11:02
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MikeB4:

Looking at the IRD site and the depreciation/ life cycle information. It has been at least 5 years since TiVo has been sold new in NZ. The guidelines I read indicate that these devices have passed  the end of life cycle and with depreciation would have zero book value. Whilst it's a pain that this has happened ( similar to Igloo) TiVo is dead(in Australasia) and it is time to move on. Nothing will be gained by wasting tax payer money making pointless claims under the CGA.   


Usefull - but not the tests.

A tribunal will look at proce paid and use.

So that is where the $920 comes in.

As for use, this is essentially a box that stays on .it is not subject to multiplr on/offs. It will have a constant power supply. It does not get moved or handled. It has essenyially no moving parts. Temperature conditions are generally stable.

I see ird depreciates speakers over a few years. My rogers are over 25 and still going strong. Im obviously not lodging a clsim here - but reasonable consumer life expectancy (which is different from business use life expectancy) is quite a different thing

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  # 1744349 20-Mar-2017 11:03
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minimoke:
tdgeek:

 

Who said the box is $940?  It includes a lifetime sub to the Tivo service which is in the US is not cheap. Lets say the box is $600. In 2009 a $600 PVR is not expensive, so there is no excess durability or quality to be had

 



So we are back to a "lifetime" expectation.

At no time ever did telecom say words to the effect of "includes x years free tivo licence" - that is fine print that might have been worth mentioning at the time.

That they didnt is arguably misleading - but that is a discussion for another day

 

Lifetime sub for the Tivo Service. You dont pay per month, you paid once for lifetime. You can do that in the US too, which does in fact charge per month, etc., we got the one time only payment, for life. Life started for us 1 Nov 2009, and now that life is ending 30/10/2017. We have had it for the life of the sub, and that life has ended.




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  # 1744351 20-Mar-2017 11:06
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sbiddle:

minimoke:
tdgeek:


Who said the box is $940?  It includes a lifetime sub to the Tivo service which is in the US is not cheap. Lets say the box is $600. In 2009 a $600 PVR is not expensive, so there is no excess durability or quality to be had




So we are back to a "lifetime" expectation.

At no time ever did telecom say words to the effect of "includes x years free tivo licence" - that is fine print that might have been worth mentioning at the time.

That they didnt is arguably misleading - but that is a discussion for another day


So Spark shout be telling everybody now buying a 3G phone that it will ultimately become useless even though they have no idea at this point when that will be?


 


Spark surely new the fraility of hybrid and would surely have known the end of the licence period. But they witheld this information from there customers and kept selling units. How is that right?

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  # 1744361 20-Mar-2017 11:08
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minimoke:
MikeB4:

 

Looking at the IRD site and the depreciation/ life cycle information. It has been at least 5 years since TiVo has been sold new in NZ. The guidelines I read indicate that these devices have passed  the end of life cycle and with depreciation would have zero book value. Whilst it's a pain that this has happened ( similar to Igloo) TiVo is dead(in Australasia) and it is time to move on. Nothing will be gained by wasting tax payer money making pointless claims under the CGA.   

 


Usefull - but not the tests.

A tribunal will look at proce paid and use.

So that is where the $920 comes in.

As for use, this is essentially a box that stays on .it is not subject to multiplr on/offs. It will have a constant power supply. It does not get moved or handled. It has essenyially no moving parts. Temperature conditions are generally stable.

I see ird depreciates speakers over a few years. My rogers are over 25 and still going strong. Im obviously not lodging a clsim here - but reasonable consumer life expectancy (which is different from business use life expectancy) is quite a different thing

 

Be it $100 or $10,000 depreciation at say 20% brings a zero book value at year 5. 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 




715 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 1744364 20-Mar-2017 11:10
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tdgeek:

minimoke:
tdgeek:


Who said the box is $940?  It includes a lifetime sub to the Tivo service which is in the US is not cheap. Lets say the box is $600. In 2009 a $600 PVR is not expensive, so there is no excess durability or quality to be had




So we are back to a "lifetime" expectation.

At no time ever did telecom say words to the effect of "includes x years free tivo licence" - that is fine print that might have been worth mentioning at the time.

That they didnt is arguably misleading - but that is a discussion for another day


Lifetime sub for the Tivo Service. You dont pay per month, you paid once for lifetime. You can do that in the US too, which does in fact charge per month, etc., we got the one time only payment, for life. Life started for us 1 Nov 2009, and now that life is ending 30/10/2017. We have had it for the life of the sub, and that life has ended.


That is not a lifetime. It is a known period.

I think it is highly unlikely there are any terms i agreed at time of purchase where i agreed to a fixed term life.

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