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  Reply # 1745158 21-Mar-2017 11:54
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minimoke: Here is another "fact". If i run a guided setup or clear delete the device will loose all functionality. Why is it a fact - because tivo tells me so.



So another question. What lifespan should a consumer expect out of a bog standard freeview box?


5 years seems reasonable to me.

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  Reply # 1745181 21-Mar-2017 13:41
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NonprayingMantis:
minimoke: Here is another "fact". If i run a guided setup or clear delete the device will loose all functionality. Why is it a fact - because tivo tells me so.



So another question. What lifespan should a consumer expect out of a bog standard freeview box?


5 years seems reasonable to me.

 

 

 

I believe the CGA also takes into consideration the amount of use something has had. So someone may have been given one as a gift, but it was in storage for a few years, so may have only had 2 years of actual use. Consumer NZ has a similar example of this. Also if something has had heavy use for say 3 years. eg say a kettle that is used 10 times a day, and is literally worn out, why should it be required to last for 5 years? This is why it is not clear cut over how long something should last for under the CGA. But Consumer do have a lifespan range of what they consider reasonable lifespan, which is independent of any retailer or manufacturers own opinion. They are the experts IMO as that is what they do day in-day out.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1745185 21-Mar-2017 13:48
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sbiddle:

 

 

 

I actually begin to wonder if you've ever read the Tivo post. It very clearly says that watching TV *WILL* continue to work.

 

 

 

 

The email does also say they don't recommend using it after the switch off date, which would imply that the device  has reached the end of it's life for the reasons it would have been purchased for. I am assuming that any usage after the switch off date, is then at the users own risk. I am also assuming that after the switch of date, any changes to the freeview channels in the future (eg new ones added, removed or altered) may not be viewable after the switch off date. Although that has not been clarified by Tivo.


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  Reply # 1745193 21-Mar-2017 14:06
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If I may be so impertinent, I believe this sums up the entirety of minimoke's argument:

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1745226 21-Mar-2017 15:36
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NonprayingMantis:
minimoke: Here is another "fact". If i run a guided setup or clear delete the device will loose all functionality. Why is it a fact - because tivo tells me so.



So another question. What lifespan should a consumer expect out of a bog standard freeview box?


5 years seems reasonable to me.

 

Same here.

 

 

 

The Tivo, not the thread...... but you never know




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  Reply # 1745378 21-Mar-2017 20:48
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andrew027:

 

My $0.02 on this is that you have no claim against Spark.

 

     

  1. The T&C as posted on page 7 of this thread make it completely clear that Hybrid Television Services was responsible for provision of the TiVo service, not Telecom, and it is the TiVo service operated by Hybrid that is ceasing. There is nothing physically wrong with the box [see #7].

  2. You have assigned a value of $300 to a second TiVo box that was given to you free. The Disputes Tribunal will not uphold this. If the 12 month term you signed up for to get the second box finishes after October 2017 you may be able to get a refund on the broadband costs if the TiVo was a deciding factor in signing up, but you won't get any money back for something you didn't pay for and you have no recourse if you have already used the full 12 months service.

  3. I doubt you will be entitled to claim under s7(1)(e) as there is nothing wrong with the durability of the box. You'd be more likely to get something under s7(1)(a) or s8 as it will no longer be fit for the purpose for which it was supplied.

  4. You will not be entitled to anything under s18 as you have suffered no material loss. Your "loss of enjoyment" doesn't count.  

  5. You state several times that you think Telecom entered into an agreement with Hybrid knowing it would cease operating in 2017. I don't agree, but either way you'll need to provide some evidence if you want to use this as part of your argument under s7(1)(i), unless you plan to use the Trump method of just throwing out random unverified defamatory statements and hoping they stick.

  6. While going through sections of the Act, how about s20(2) where you must reject the goods within a reasonable period from the time of supply? Spark (if you're going after them) might argue that your happy use of the boxes for five years means you accepted there was no defect.

  7. People have used a number of analogies, which can be misleading as two situations will seldom be exactly alike. The CDMA phone/network example is pretty good in that, like the TiVo box, the phone would still work if a service was available (e.g. if you used it roaming in another country where CDMA was still operating). The major difference in the analogies is it was Telecom's decision to close down the CDMA network - it was not their decision to shut down the TiVo service. The way Telecom handled the CDMA network closure, giving people as much notice as possible and offering refunds on pre-paid credit, etc. indicates they acted pretty honourably in that case and yet your assumption is that they acted dishonourably in your TiVo case.

 

 

Thanks for taking the time with a constructive post!


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  Reply # 1745379 21-Mar-2017 20:48
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Has it changed your mind though?


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  Reply # 1745518 22-Mar-2017 06:28
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God this is still going?  Minimoke I don't know what your hourly rate for work is but I think you have used up more than $300 worth of your time plus thousands of dollars of other peoples time on this subject.

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1745520 22-Mar-2017 06:33
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Also sky lets you rent a decoder.   Can not remember the pricing but it says you can email them to ask more questions.  Having a skybox "should" give you access to the pvr service (for a fee) 

 

 

 

https://skytv.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/478/~/can-i-just-receive-the-free-to-air-channels-with-my-sky-box%3F

 

 

 

Disclosure: I do work for sky but have nothing to do with this side of the business.

 

 


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  Reply # 1745522 22-Mar-2017 06:42
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tripp:

 

Also sky lets you rent a decoder.   Can not remember the pricing but it says you can email them to ask more questions.  Having a skybox "should" give you access to the pvr service (for a fee) 

 

 

 

https://skytv.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/478/~/can-i-just-receive-the-free-to-air-channels-with-my-sky-box%3F

 

 

 

Disclosure: I do work for sky but have nothing to do with this side of the business.

 

 

 

 

I think its $18 per month. Maybe $15 more to rent MySky? $33 a month if thats the case. Some have said they would pay a small fee to resurrect Tivo service. About $7-60 per week with the Sky option


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  Reply # 1745523 22-Mar-2017 06:46
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tdgeek:

 

tripp:

 

Also sky lets you rent a decoder.   Can not remember the pricing but it says you can email them to ask more questions.  Having a skybox "should" give you access to the pvr service (for a fee) 

 

 

 

https://skytv.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/478/~/can-i-just-receive-the-free-to-air-channels-with-my-sky-box%3F

 

 

 

Disclosure: I do work for sky but have nothing to do with this side of the business.

 

 

 

 

I think its $18 per month. Maybe $15 more to rent MySky? $33 a month if thats the case. Some have said they would pay a small fee to resurrect Tivo service. About $7-60 per week with the Sky option

 

 

Yes the OP will need to email them and ask questions as I am not to sure on the details of cost etc.  But if they do it then the remote recording etc "should" work if they have the pvr service setup.

 

 


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  Reply # 1745526 22-Mar-2017 07:10
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tripp:

 

tdgeek:

 

tripp:

 

Also sky lets you rent a decoder.   Can not remember the pricing but it says you can email them to ask more questions.  Having a skybox "should" give you access to the pvr service (for a fee) 

 

 

 

https://skytv.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/478/~/can-i-just-receive-the-free-to-air-channels-with-my-sky-box%3F

 

 

 

Disclosure: I do work for sky but have nothing to do with this side of the business.

 

 

 

 

I think its $18 per month. Maybe $15 more to rent MySky? $33 a month if thats the case. Some have said they would pay a small fee to resurrect Tivo service. About $7-60 per week with the Sky option

 

 

Yes the OP will need to email them and ask questions as I am not to sure on the details of cost etc.  But if they do it then the remote recording etc "should" work if they have the pvr service setup.

 

 

 

 

I have Sky. PVR, grid UI, can remote record via the app, sorted




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  Reply # 1746014 22-Mar-2017 19:14
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tripp:

 

God this is still going?  Minimoke I don't know what your hourly rate for work is but I think you have used up more than $300 worth of your time plus thousands of dollars of other peoples time on this subject.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I look upon it as me doing my bit of social good. If others can learn then its time well spent. Its other peoples choice how they spend therm time and if they wan to spend it on this thread then that cost falls to them.


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  Reply # 1746019 22-Mar-2017 19:33
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minimoke:

 

tripp:

 

God this is still going?  Minimoke I don't know what your hourly rate for work is but I think you have used up more than $300 worth of your time plus thousands of dollars of other peoples time on this subject.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I look upon it as me doing my bit of social good. If others can learn then its time well spent. Its other peoples choice how they spend therm time and if they wan to spend it on this thread then that cost falls to them.

 

 

Others can learn, thats a good thing, but not in this thread IMHO.

 

What you want or what suits you, isn't the reality. As has been stated many times, the issue is the service, not the box. The box is Telecom, its on their head if an issue, although now, well out of warranty. The service is Hybrid, licensed from Tivo. Call Hybrid or call Tivo. 




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  Reply # 1746073 22-Mar-2017 21:41
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

What you want or what suits you, isn't the reality. As has been stated many times, the issue is the service, not the box. The box is Telecom, its on their head if an issue, although now, well out of warranty. The service is Hybrid, licensed from Tivo. Call Hybrid or call Tivo. 

 

 

Without wanting to be difficult I dont think the Box is telecom. I do agree any issue with the Box is telecom - they were the supplier. Are we able to agree the box is a product I have purchased? No point calling Hybrid or tivo - they have no guarantee responsibilities to me.

 

 

 

As a supplier telecom provided me with a Tivo Media Device (on a subscription free basis) and wireless Adapter bundle at a cost of $360 but with a replacement price of $499. The only terms and conditions agreed was the charging of $360 to my telecom account - I have paperwork. If anyone wants to assert I have Agreed to telecoms T's and C's the onus will be on them to prove it - but I can say I dont have a copy in my bundle of papers.

 

 

 

There is a secondary provisioning document which relates to "Service" - but this has to do with Freeveview ( eg having an aerial and wireless  or multi port modem. There was a freeview disclosure which it appears I read. Dont recall what was in it.

 

 

 

The Tivo Media Device came with a guarantee against defects - but excluded moisture and impact damage. No mention at all anywhere about Hybrid or any other Terms being agreed to. No mention that there is a Tivo Service, not even in the original media release - that release states the tivo is a media device.

 

 

 

On 1 November this media device will have a defect. it will not work, or at least it wont work after a power cut. It will be so defective the best current advice from hybrid is that it be taken to an e-recyler.

 

 

 

As at today my product is working and according to the system information screen my account has a product life time service. My loose interpretation of this is that for as long as the product has a life so does the service. (I'm a consumer remember - I dont need all that technical behind the scenes information - I'm allowed to rely on what is represented)

 

 

 

I Understand there is a Tivo Service. But by my reckoning it can only be stopped, for example in order to comply with any legal obligations (including legislative changes) or Court orders; or hybrid have reasonable grounds to believe that a threat or risk of security, injury or damage exists. No mention at all of a licence end date. That might have been a key bit of consumer information that would enable the consumer to make an informed choice on retention or rejection of the Terms. "all good things must come to an end" doesn't cut it for me.

 

 

 

I purchased my product in Dec 2010. So six and a bit years before I became aware of a defect. Granted it is outside the 5 years recognized for electronic equipment. But Tivo is the worlds most popular media device (fact) so I reckon this could potentially eek out a bit more on the standard guarantee. I wouldn't say 10 years that wouldn't be reasonable - but shall we split the difference and call it 7 1/2 years?

 

 

 

What people want to make of all that is up to them. I've yet to decide.


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