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720 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1746221 23-Mar-2017 07:00
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dickytim:

 

Holy crap 23 pages, all those who think there is a case why not pony up and set up a class action, put your money where your mouth is, if I thought you had a snow-balls I'd contribute, but no-one has made a single sensible argument for a CGA based claim.

 

 

 

 

Lets imagine for a moment Hybrid is still alive and Spark are selling tivos today. Say you bought one today but tomorrow Hybrid says "ÿou have had a days good use but all good things must come to an end. We are turning the service to you off on 1 October". Do you think you have a claim of any kind?


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  # 1746222 23-Mar-2017 07:08
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minimoke:

 

dickytim:

 

Holy crap 23 pages, all those who think there is a case why not pony up and set up a class action, put your money where your mouth is, if I thought you had a snow-balls I'd contribute, but no-one has made a single sensible argument for a CGA based claim.

 

 

 

 

Lets imagine for a moment Hybrid is still alive and Spark are selling tivos today. Say you bought one today but tomorrow Hybrid says "ÿou have had a days good use but all good things must come to an end. We are turning the service to you off on 1 October". Do you think you have a claim of any kind?

 

 

Which is why Tivo sales stopped 5 years ago, so that the accepted life of the Hybrid service will be acceptable to consumer law.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1746226 23-Mar-2017 07:24
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In your bundle of papers you dont have T+C's from either Telecom or Hybrid, as you said. So that means they do not apply to you? As you did not sign them?

 

Does the same apply to your landline or BB or mobile? The iron that you bought at Harvey Norman? The BBQ you bought at Mitre 10? I dont have any here either. Me, I know they are publically available for viewing, and if I chose to accept them, I can purchase the product, fully beng aware that I won't have to stop calling my intended ISP, but to drive to their office to order the service/product and get my hardcopy and sign it. When I buy my iron, they wont need to open the packaging, give me the T+C's to read and sign.

 

Had you read the T+C's, you would see that Telecom T+C's cover the box, and you read the Hybrid T+C's cover the service, which @sbiddle has told you many times, you accepted when activating the Tivo "service" supplied from Hybrid.

 

So, box failure, see Telecom, service failure see Hybrid. Hybrid have acknowledged on theor email that 5 years satisfies consumer law, and when 1 Nov rolls around, there wont be any sold is less than 5 years, thats why the date is what it is




720 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1746229 23-Mar-2017 07:29
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tdgeek:

 

minimoke:

 

dickytim:

 

Holy crap 23 pages, all those who think there is a case why not pony up and set up a class action, put your money where your mouth is, if I thought you had a snow-balls I'd contribute, but no-one has made a single sensible argument for a CGA based claim.

 

 

 

 

Lets imagine for a moment Hybrid is still alive and Spark are selling tivos today. Say you bought one today but tomorrow Hybrid says "ÿou have had a days good use but all good things must come to an end. We are turning the service to you off on 1 October". Do you think you have a claim of any kind?

 

 

Which is why Tivo sales stopped 5 years ago, so that the accepted life of the Hybrid service will be acceptable to consumer law.

 

 

So you are saying Telecom knew 5 years ago that the service had an expiry date.

 

 

 

And they obviously didn't think that was a bit of information that should be told to consumers when making  a purchaing decision - which was for all intents a "life time" service.

 

 

 

If telecom knew  then they have hidden that information. Given the tivo is reliant on service dont you think that is fundamental and key information that a consumer should be told?

 

 

 

But now you have bought up a different issu. If the CGA has an expected electronic device life time of 5 years (and that is moot), what is the expected life time of a "lifetime Liscence". what does consumer say about that on their list?




720 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1746230 23-Mar-2017 07:35
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tdgeek:

 

In your bundle of papers you dont have T+C's from either Telecom or Hybrid, as you said. So that means they do not apply to you? As you did not sign them?

 

Does the same apply to your landline or BB or mobile? The iron that you bought at Harvey Norman? The BBQ you bought at Mitre 10? I dont have any here either. Me, I know they are publically available for viewing, and if I chose to accept them, I can purchase the product, fully beng aware that I won't have to stop calling my intended ISP, but to drive to their office to order the service/product and get my hardcopy and sign it. When I buy my iron, they wont need to open the packaging, give me the T+C's to read and sign.

 

Had you read the T+C's, you would see that Telecom T+C's cover the box, and you read the Hybrid T+C's cover the service, which @sbiddle has told you many times, you accepted when activating the Tivo "service" supplied from Hybrid.

 

So, box failure, see Telecom, service failure see Hybrid. Hybrid have acknowledged on theor email that 5 years satisfies consumer law, and when 1 Nov rolls around, there wont be any sold is less than 5 years, thats why the date is what it is

 

 

A fundamental thing about terms and conditions is they need to be agreed at the time the contract is formed. There is no shortage of consumer information and case law on that.

 

 

 

And if you want to look at the Tivo T's and C's they can cease the Tivo service, for example ""in order to comply with our legal obligations (including legislative changes) or Court orders; or we have reasonable grounds to believe that a threat or risk of security, injury or damage exists.". Five good years doesn't cut it with me.


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  # 1746236 23-Mar-2017 07:46
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minimoke:

 

tdgeek:

 

minimoke:

 

dickytim:

 

Holy crap 23 pages, all those who think there is a case why not pony up and set up a class action, put your money where your mouth is, if I thought you had a snow-balls I'd contribute, but no-one has made a single sensible argument for a CGA based claim.

 

 

 

 

Lets imagine for a moment Hybrid is still alive and Spark are selling tivos today. Say you bought one today but tomorrow Hybrid says "ÿou have had a days good use but all good things must come to an end. We are turning the service to you off on 1 October". Do you think you have a claim of any kind?

 

 

Which is why Tivo sales stopped 5 years ago, so that the accepted life of the Hybrid service will be acceptable to consumer law.

 

 

So you are saying Telecom knew 5 years ago that the service had an expiry date.

 

 

 

And they obviously didn't think that was a bit of information that should be told to consumers when making  a purchaing decision - which was for all intents a "life time" service.

 

 

 

If telecom knew  then they have hidden that information. Given the tivo is reliant on service dont you think that is fundamental and key information that a consumer should be told?

 

 

 

But now you have bought up a different issu. If the CGA has an expected electronic device life time of 5 years (and that is moot), what is the expected life time of a "lifetime Liscence". what does consumer say about that on their list?

 

 

You need to stop making things up and relying on what you made up in your reply. I did not say that. I said that Hybrid ended the service for whatever reasons (going broke) and upheld their responsibilties under consumer law by suffering losses till 1 Nov, when consumer law will not then apply.


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  # 1746237 23-Mar-2017 07:48
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minimoke:

 

tdgeek:

 

In your bundle of papers you dont have T+C's from either Telecom or Hybrid, as you said. So that means they do not apply to you? As you did not sign them?

 

Does the same apply to your landline or BB or mobile? The iron that you bought at Harvey Norman? The BBQ you bought at Mitre 10? I dont have any here either. Me, I know they are publically available for viewing, and if I chose to accept them, I can purchase the product, fully beng aware that I won't have to stop calling my intended ISP, but to drive to their office to order the service/product and get my hardcopy and sign it. When I buy my iron, they wont need to open the packaging, give me the T+C's to read and sign.

 

Had you read the T+C's, you would see that Telecom T+C's cover the box, and you read the Hybrid T+C's cover the service, which @sbiddle has told you many times, you accepted when activating the Tivo "service" supplied from Hybrid.

 

So, box failure, see Telecom, service failure see Hybrid. Hybrid have acknowledged on theor email that 5 years satisfies consumer law, and when 1 Nov rolls around, there wont be any sold is less than 5 years, thats why the date is what it is

 

 

A fundamental thing about terms and conditions is they need to be agreed at the time the contract is formed. There is no shortage of consumer information and case law on that.

 

 

 

And if you want to look at the Tivo T's and C's they can cease the Tivo service, for example ""in order to comply with our legal obligations (including legislative changes) or Court orders; or we have reasonable grounds to believe that a threat or risk of security, injury or damage exists.". Five good years doesn't cut it with me.

 

 

You forgot to respond to my comments re LL, BB, Mobile, iron and BBQ T+C's

 

5 years may not cut it for you, but you are not the CGA. They know more than you I feel

 

 


 
 
 
 




720 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1746245 23-Mar-2017 08:42
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tdgeek:

You need to stop making things up and relying on what you made up in your reply. I did not say that. I said that Hybrid ended the service for whatever reasons (going broke) and upheld their responsibilties under consumer law by suffering losses till 1 Nov, when consumer law will not then apply.


You will need to point out what i am making up.

This is what you said "Which is why Tivo sales stopped 5 years ago, so that the accepted life of the Hybrid service will be acceptable to consumer law"

Telecom (and noel leeming and bond and bond) were the sellers. So you are saying telecom stopped selling 5 years ago so that the accepted life of the hybrid service will be acceptable to consumer law.

That is a pretty cynical use of the law



720 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1746247 23-Mar-2017 08:54
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tdgeek:

You forgot to respond to my comments re LL, BB, Mobile, iron and BBQ T+C's


5 years may not cut it for you, but you are not the CGA. They know more than you I feel


 


I didnt forget - they were covered in my reply. That is the terms are agreed when you sign up for a land line, broad band and mobile or when you buy an iron or bbq. I dont know what those terms are - yours might be different to mine.

I can tell you, for example i am on a monthly supply contract for bb. My provider can cut me off in a month and i have to pay a months fees. For that they will provide me with unlimited uninterupted supply, bar a few exclusions. With it came a cheap as chips router which i can aparently expect a five year life time. I'd be surprised if i got three but seems everyone will support me if i want to make a cga claim on that when it dies within 5 years.

18146 posts

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  # 1746249 23-Mar-2017 09:08
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minimoke:
tdgeek:

 

You forgot to respond to my comments re LL, BB, Mobile, iron and BBQ T+C's

 

 

 

5 years may not cut it for you, but you are not the CGA. They know more than you I feel

 

 

 

 

 


I didnt forget - they were covered in my reply. That is the terms are agreed when you sign up for a land line, broad band and mobile or when you buy an iron or bbq. I dont know what those terms are - yours might be different to mine.

I can tell you, for example i am on a monthly supply contract for bb. My provider can cut me off in a month and i have to pay a months fees. For that they will provide me with unlimited uninterupted supply, bar a few exclusions. With it came a cheap as chips router which i can aparently expect a five year life time. I'd be surprised if i got three but seems everyone will support me if i want to make a cga claim on that when it dies within 5 years.

 

So you signed all of those T+C's at time of purchase?


2541 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1746250 23-Mar-2017 09:11
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minimoke:
You will need to point out what i am making up.

This is what you said "Which is why Tivo sales stopped 5 years ago, so that the accepted life of the Hybrid service will be acceptable to consumer law"

Telecom (and noel leeming and bond and bond) were the sellers. So you are saying telecom stopped selling 5 years ago so that the accepted life of the hybrid service will be acceptable to consumer law.

That is a pretty cynical use of the law

 

Unfortunately I think you are interpreting everything people are trying to tell you in here in such a way as to try and support your pre-determined view, which is not necessarily the case.

 

Telecom etc did not stop selling the Tivo hardware 5 years prior to the service end date. At the time they stopped selling them, there was, to the best of information I can find as a random public with no involvement in any of the companies, no expected service end date. AFTER they stopped selling them, the service provider set the end date to be 5 years past the sale end, in order to comply with consumer laws.

 

I believe you used a car analogy earlier in the thread, if I recall correctly - so how about a real-world car example. The change from Leaded to Unleaded petrol. I'm pretty sure car manufacturers weren't required to give people new cars for free, though please let me know if they did.

 

 


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Uber Geek

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  # 1746251 23-Mar-2017 09:13
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minimoke:
tdgeek:

 

You need to stop making things up and relying on what you made up in your reply. I did not say that. I said that Hybrid ended the service for whatever reasons (going broke) and upheld their responsibilties under consumer law by suffering losses till 1 Nov, when consumer law will not then apply.

 


You will need to point out what i am making up.

This is what you said "Which is why Tivo sales stopped 5 years ago, so that the accepted life of the Hybrid service will be acceptable to consumer law"

Telecom (and noel leeming and bond and bond) were the sellers. So you are saying telecom stopped selling 5 years ago so that the accepted life of the hybrid service will be acceptable to consumer law.

That is a pretty cynical use of the law

 

If Tivo sales stopped 5 years ago, its an old item , Telecom cannot really sell them if they are not being provided to sell can they? And why would the devices not be provided for sale anymore? Old. Like many devices. If I look at all my devices, I can't buy them as they are not now for sale. You would therefore expect that Hybrid ceased the sales, knowing that they knew they were going to end it, or had concerns about the future of it. .

 

Making up, you say stuff then place your arguments about that stuff being correct.




720 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1746266 23-Mar-2017 09:41
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Inphinity:

Telecom etc did not stop selling the Tivo hardware 5 years prior to the service end date. At the time they stopped selling them, there was, to the best of information I can find as a random public with no involvement in any of the companies, no expected service end date. AFTER they stopped selling them, the service provider set the end date to be 5 years past the sale end, in order to comply with consumer laws.p>


Noel leeming started selling on 23 november 2011. Sales stopped around june 2012 after which units got sent to a clearing house



720 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1746270 23-Mar-2017 09:48
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Inphinity:

I believe you used a car analogy earlier in the thread, if I recall correctly - so how about a real-world car example. The change from Leaded to Unleaded petrol. I'm pretty sure car manufacturers weren't required to give people new cars for free, though please let me know if they did.


 


So this analogy will settle this discussion. Great!

Cars could still run on unleaded petrol. For those that didnt, all they needed was a lead additive.

The cars kept on going afterwards so no new car was required.

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  # 1746285 23-Mar-2017 10:09
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minimoke:
Inphinity:

 

I believe you used a car analogy earlier in the thread, if I recall correctly - so how about a real-world car example. The change from Leaded to Unleaded petrol. I'm pretty sure car manufacturers weren't required to give people new cars for free, though please let me know if they did.

 

 

 

 

 


So this analogy will settle this discussion. Great!

Cars could still run on unleaded petrol. For those that didnt, all they needed was a lead additive.

The cars kept on going afterwards so no new car was required.

 

Did the car companies have to pay for that lead additive?


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