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14887 posts

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  # 1743813 19-Mar-2017 14:07
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blakamin:

 

mattwnz:
blakamin:

 

See, you aren't reading posts at all...

 

The post above that one you quoted.

 

And where is this video? Link?

 



Wrong, you posted while I was typing so I never saw it.

 

It was the PREVIOUS POST! How did I post while you were responding the one AFTER it?

 

I'm not going looking for it... you're the one that keeps bring up a meaningless ad not shown in NZ.

 



As I have said, it is on their YouTube channel with other tivo Videos showing the features of this box. So nzers have access to it. Search on YouTube if you want to see it again.


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  # 1743814 19-Mar-2017 14:09
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Not putting a too fine a point on it here, how about those interested in pursuing a CGA or FTA claim against spark move this to a less public forum, I'll be more than willing to say "Private message me and we will get the ball rolling on getting a combined action going".

 

 

 

As for everyone else, thanks for your input, If you have a Tivo and are quite happy to walk away from it come Oct 31st good on you, good luck finding finding a replacement.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1743816 19-Mar-2017 14:15
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minimoke:



What about Hybrids video staying the epg last for the life of the box. It is on the hybrid / tivo YouTube channel for this series 3 model of tivo that they were selling to Australia and kiwis. As far as I am aware the boxes were identical and are covered by the identical service terms for hybrid Australia.


I am not sure this is particularity useful if it was an Australian ad. It woudl be a long bow for us to try and claim in NZ something advertised in Australia. Anyway we have our own NZ based Fair trading act and CGA that suppliers of gear come under.



I am not sure if they were ever shown on Tv anywhere. I only ever saw them on hybrids Australias/tivos youtube channel which also shows other videos of other features this model had. But I can't see how if they are the same box and the same Australian company that are providing the service, why it would be different for NZ. Not unless there is actually something that specifically specifies the life of the epg for the NZ market.

Whatever the case I think this whole thing is a very interesting and potentially complex situation due to a large number of different companies involved. Not a great situation for the consumer though.

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  # 1743817 19-Mar-2017 14:17
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Separate Terms

 

Separate terms apply to your use of the TiVo Media Device, TiVo Service , CASPA™ On-Demand Service (CASPA™ Service), and Home Networking Package:

 

  • Your use of your TiVo Media Device and TiVo Service is governed by the Terms of Use of TiVo Media Device and TiVo Service agreement with Hybrid Television Services (ANZ) Pty Limited.
  • Your use of the CASPA™ Service is governed by the Terms of Use of CASPA™ Service - New Zealand with Hybrid Television Services (New Zealand) Limited.
  • Your use of the Home Networking Package (if applicable) is governed partly by the Terms of Use of the TiVo Media Device and TiVo Service, as the terms of a software licence with Hybrid Television Services (New Zealand) Limited which you are required to enter into at the time you install the software.
  • If you are a Telecom broadband your use of the TiVo and CASPA™ Services are also subject to our Broadband Terms and Conditions.

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  # 1743818 19-Mar-2017 14:19
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mattwnz:

As I have said, it is on their YouTube channel with other tivo Videos showing the features of this box. So nzers have access to it. Search on YouTube if you want to see it again.

 

 

 

OMG...  Seriously? That's the argument you want to use??

 

CGA won't give a toss about YouTube vids if the ad was never shown in NZ. I can watch american ads on YouTube... doesn't mean I can take anyone to court over them.

 

 

 

 

 

LOL... good luck to you all, you're gunna need it if that's part of your argument!


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  # 1743820 19-Mar-2017 14:25
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blakamin:

 

mattwnz:

As I have said, it is on their YouTube channel with other tivo Videos showing the features of this box. So nzers have access to it. Search on YouTube if you want to see it again.

 

OMG...  Seriously? That's the argument you want to use?

 

CGA won't give a toss about YouTube vids if the ad was never shown in NZ. I can watch american ads on YouTube... doesn't mean I can take anyone to court over them.

 

LOL... good luck to you all, you're gunna need it if that's part of your argument!

 



Not sure I understand your point. These are videos for this model by hybrid Australia/tivo. Not USA. I have no idea what you mean by shown in NZ. These look to be feature videos posted on their you tube channel, they don't look like Tv adverts. Maybe they were broadcast in Australia, but not something a nzer would know. But these days companies have YouTube channels to show features and conventional Tv isn't used.

But if that didn't apply to kiwis, why would kiwis be treated worse than Australian consumers, especially when both are being serviced by the same Australian company?


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  # 1743823 19-Mar-2017 14:34
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mattwnz:
blakamin:

 

mattwnz:

As I have said, it is on their YouTube channel with other tivo Videos showing the features of this box. So nzers have access to it. Search on YouTube if you want to see it again.

 

OMG...  Seriously? That's the argument you want to use??

 

CGA won't give a toss about YouTube vids if the ad was never shown in NZ. I can watch american ads on YouTube... doesn't mean I can take anyone to court over them.

 

LOL... good luck to you all, you're gunna need it if that's part of your argument!

 



Not sure I understand your point. These are videos for this model by hybrid Australia/tivo. Not USA. I have no idea what you mean by shown in NZ. These look to be feature videos posted on their you tube channel, they don't look like Tv adverts. Maybe they were broadcast I'm Australia, but not something a nzer would know.

 

That is my point. They were never shown on NZ TV, therefore, the CGA people will ignore them. You can't get them for "lying in an ad" if the ad was never shown!

 

Like I said, good luck... you're gunna need it.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1743828 19-Mar-2017 14:42
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blakamin:

 

mattwnz:
blakamin:

 

mattwnz:

As I have said, it is on their YouTube channel with other tivo Videos showing the features of this box. So nzers have access to it. Search on YouTube if you want to see it again.

 

OMG...  Seriously? That's the argument you want to use??

 

CGA won't give a toss about YouTube vids if the ad was never shown in NZ. I can watch american ads on YouTube... doesn't mean I can take anyone to court over them.

 

LOL... good luck to you all, you're gunna need it if that's part of your argument!

 



Not sure I understand your point. These are videos for this model by hybrid Australia/tivo. Not USA. I have no idea what you mean by shown in NZ. These look to be feature videos posted on their you tube channel, they don't look like Tv adverts. Maybe they were broadcast I'm Australia, but not something a nzer would know.

 

That is my point. They were never shown on NZ TV, therefore, the CGA people will ignore them. You can't get them for "lying in an ad" if the ad was never shown!

 

Like I said, good luck... you're gunna need it.

 

 

We don't know they weren't shown on TV in NZ. We don't even know if they were shown on TV in Oz. Only that they have got them on their youtube channel, which appears to be the only channel for the NZ/Oz market. We don't know that they weren't created solely for youtube. I can't see any youtube channel that they have setup especially for the NZ market, if it's features differ. The problem is there appears to be so much ambiguity and conflicting info out there.


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  # 1743829 19-Mar-2017 14:46
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mattwnz:

 

We don't know they weren't shown on TV in NZ. We don't even know if they were shown on TV in Oz. Only that they have got them on their youtube channel, which appears to be the only channel for the NZ/Oz market. We don't know that they weren't created solely for youtube. I can't see any youtube channel that they have setup especially for the NZ market, if it's features differ. The problem is there appears to be so much ambiguity and conflicting info out there.

 

 

 

 

What are you going to reply with when they ask you "Was watching this video the reason you bought this device?"


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  # 1743831 19-Mar-2017 14:52
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blakamin:

 

mattwnz:

 

We don't know they weren't shown on TV in NZ. We don't even know if they were shown on TV in Oz. Only that they have got them on their youtube channel, which appears to be the only channel for the NZ/Oz market. We don't know that they weren't created solely for youtube. I can't see any youtube channel that they have setup especially for the NZ market, if it's features differ. The problem is there appears to be so much ambiguity and conflicting info out there.

 

 

 

 

What are you going to reply with when they ask you "Was watching this video the reason you bought this device?"

 

 

When  researching prior to buying I always watch youtube videos and reviews, so I can be as informed as possible. Lets just say I wouldn't have purchased it if I had been told the EPG service would expire in 2017 rendering it useless for the reason I purchased it. These particular videos don't appear to be adverts but feature videos for the 3 series tivo from what I can see, as they have a whole heap of similar ones. 


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  # 1743832 19-Mar-2017 14:56
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minimoke:

 

I think the T's and C's that apply to me as a consumer of a product sold be telecom are the ones I'll show below. I dont recall these Ts and C's being agreed before I purchased. My recollections was "we'll supply you with the Tivo if you agree to the $30 a week (as I recall) extra payment on your telecom account." On the telecom T's and C;s there is no link to the terms of use of tivo media Device and tivo service agreement.

 

You can't buy a device, use it for x years and then claim you didn't know about the terms & conditions.

 

minimoke:

 

TiVo Terms and Conditions   Telecom TiVo Terms and Conditions

 

The following terms and conditions apply in relation to your purchase of a TiVo® media device or other associated TiVo equipment and/or software (TiVo Products) from Telecom New Zealand Limited (referred to as Telecom, we, us or our) by purchasing TiVo Products you agree to be bound by these terms and conditions.

 

Separate Terms

 

Separate terms apply to your use of the TiVo Media Device, TiVo Service , CASPA™ On-Demand Service (CASPA™ Service), and Home Networking Package:

 

  • Your use of your TiVo Media Device and TiVo Service is governed by the Terms of Use of TiVo Media Device and TiVo Service agreement with Hybrid Television Services (ANZ) Pty Limited.
  • Your use of the CASPA™ Service is governed by the Terms of Use of CASPA™ Service - New Zealand with Hybrid Television Services (New Zealand) Limited.
  • Your use of the Home Networking Package (if applicable) is governed partly by the Terms of Use of the TiVo Media Device and TiVo Service, as the terms of a software licence with Hybrid Television Services (New Zealand) Limited which you are required to enter into at the time you install the software.
  • If you are a Telecom broadband your use of the TiVo and CASPA™ Services are also subject to our Broadband Terms and Conditions.

 

 

*snip*

 

We are not responsible for the TiVo Service or the CASPA™ Service, which are services provided by Hybrid Television Services.

 

 

 

 

Emphasis mine. The Telecom terms state that you will also need to agree to Hybrid's T&Cs and they they are not responsible for the service. You would have agreed to the Hybrid terms during device set up as is standard for most software these days. Although I am guessing that these were skipped through.





 


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  # 1743851 19-Mar-2017 15:30
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mattwnz:
NonprayingMantis: The lifetime thing you are referring to is a pricing thing. It means that for the life of the product they will not charge you for the epg service.
It doesn't mean they are guaranteeing to run the epg for an infinite amount of time.


No it was explained in detail inthe other thread. Hybrid Australia even had a promotional video clearly saying the epg would last for the life of the box

 

 

 

I can't imagine a TVC from Australia is considered a part of the T&Cs of your NZ-purchased product.

 

Besides which, it was explained early on in the thread that the 'lifetime' in the screenshot referred to types of subscription - nothing to do with how long Hybrid was committed to providing the service for.

 

 

 

gregmcc: By activation we were agreeing to Tivo's T&C's not Telecoms, Tivo's T&C stated (and still do) "Product lifetime service"

 

gregmcc: Back on page 2 I posted a picture of the system status info of a Tivo, clearly showing the "Product lifetime service"

 

 

 

I'll point out also that the screenshot also does not form part of the T&Cs. You can't just point to some ambiguous words on a screen and insist that it forms part of the contract.

 

 


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  # 1743852 19-Mar-2017 15:32
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minimoke:

 

Agreed. Im not thinking of lodging a CGA with Hybrid as I did not purchase Tivo off them - i bought it off Telecom.

 

 

minimoke:

 

Back in the day Telecom was selling a Tivo box for $900 or thereabouts. It was a box with loads of Tivo service features. As a consumer I was buying a box and those features. I think its is a bit of a red herring referencing back to Hybrid since who woudl go and spend $900 on essentially a dumb box - that is a box that plays freeview but cant record or do anything without the Tivo service.

 

 

You did, apparently laughing

 

 

 

Seriously though, you have started off with your end-goal in mind and you're working your way backwards, cherry-picking things that suit your argument and ignoring those that don't. That's where your argument actually fails.

 

 

 

You posted this (bold mine):

 

Telecom TiVo Terms and Conditions

 

~

 

Separate Terms

 

Separate terms apply to your use of the TiVo Media Device, TiVo Service , CASPA™ On-Demand Service (CASPA™ Service), and Home Networking Package:

 

 Your use of your TiVo Media Device and TiVo Service is governed by the Terms of Use of TiVo Media Device and TiVo Service agreement with Hybrid Television Services (ANZ) Pty Limited.

 

~

 

We are not responsible for the TiVo Service or the CASPA™ Service, which are services provided by Hybrid Television Services.

 

 

 

You can't ignore this. Telecom has quite clearly stated that they are not responsible for the TiVo Service, which they have stated is distinct from the TiVo Media Device. The Service is provided by Hybrid, who are now gone. You can't magically transfer responsibility for that service to Telecom/Spark. Telecom, who sold you the Device, is only responsible for the Device if there is a fault along the lines of it not powering on, black smoke coming out the back, etc. Service coming to an end is not the same thing as a fault with the Device.

 

YOUR DISPUTE IS WITH THE SERVICE, NOT THE DEVICE. You simply must acknowledge that. It's delusional to think otherwise.


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  # 1743855 19-Mar-2017 15:39
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mattwnz:

 

blakamin:

 

mattwnz:

 

We don't know they weren't shown on TV in NZ. We don't even know if they were shown on TV in Oz. Only that they have got them on their youtube channel, which appears to be the only channel for the NZ/Oz market. We don't know that they weren't created solely for youtube. I can't see any youtube channel that they have setup especially for the NZ market, if it's features differ. The problem is there appears to be so much ambiguity and conflicting info out there.

 

 

 

 

What are you going to reply with when they ask you "Was watching this video the reason you bought this device?"

 

 

When  researching prior to buying I always watch youtube videos and reviews, so I can be as informed as possible. Lets just say I wouldn't have purchased it if I had been told the EPG service would expire in 2017 rendering it useless for the reason I purchased it. These particular videos don't appear to be adverts but feature videos for the 3 series tivo from what I can see, as they have a whole heap of similar ones. 

 

 

 

 

So you're going to lie and not admit you'd never seen this video until 3 weeks ago. Good luck with that one. :D


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  # 1743856 19-Mar-2017 15:46
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minimoke:

 

Agreed. Im not thinking of lodging a CGA with Hybrid as I did not purchase Tivo off them - i bought it off Telecom.

 

 

You purchased the Tivo Service off Hybrid at no cost to you when you activated your account. You only purchased the Tivo hardware from them which the terms and conditions make very clear. If you did not want to accept those terms and conditions you should have returned the box at the time.

 

If you buy a PC from Noel Leeming (for example) and then purchase a 3rd party application for that PC that then fails to work your logic would seem to be that it's Noel Leeming at fault.

 

 


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