What to buy for sports shooting?

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#2344431 28-Oct-2019 15:14

try to keep an eye out for the F/4 L IS, sometimes they go for 7-800 bucks.

i'm not sure about the picture quality of the non IS but the IS one is as sharp if not sharper than the 2.8L IS II at F/4 at 200mm.

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#2344448 28-Oct-2019 17:10

I am only familiar with the canon ecosystem.

At the cheaper end of the spectrum, I would go for what I have, an 800D with a 55-250 STM lens. Can get that combo for around $1300 if you shop around. At that price dust & moisture is a lesser concern.

The lens is very well reviewed, and because it is designed for crop camera's, it is a lot cheaper and lighter than full frame glass.

The next step up I would consider is the 90D (it has a new sensor, that was just released), with the latest 70-200 F4 lens. That way you pick up dust/water resistance, "L" grade glass, non-breathing lens, and constant aperture.

I don't see a compelling reason to go full frame or mirror-less for your application. Full frame (unless you go to 1DX level has worse frame rates etc), and DSLR is still good for fast action, especially if you don't care about size.

Don't forget a polarizing filter and spare battery (two if you go mirrorless)

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#2344451 28-Oct-2019 17:19

Batman:

you don't need a 7D to shoot racing cars.

even a 700D will be fine. why 700D - it has 9 cross type AF points.

you don't need a 70-200 2.8 that thing weighs a tonne, a 70-200 f/4 IS L can be had for 700 bucks - it's as sharp if not sharper than a $3000 lens. so get that one if you can find one.

though i always find that i want that 300mm reach .... but the secret gem of photography is the 70-200 F/4 IS L

I've shot motorsport with a lot of Canon digital bodies (D30 / D60 / 10D / 30D / 350d / 450d / 40D / 1D / 1D2 / 1d2N / 1d3 / 5d / 6d / 1d4 / 1ds2 / 5d3 / 7d / 7d2 and 1dx) and while a 700D will get the shot usually, and some types of motorsport aren't that challenging - you'l get the shot more often with a better AF system like the 7d2 (or later 5D and 1D series obviously)...

The 70-200 2.8 doesn't weigh much if you are carrying only that and a body - but yes, the F4 version is definitely an excellent choice - and if weight is an issue, then a 7d2 + 70-200 (older non IS or newer IS models) will be a stunning combo.

I mentioned a second hand 2.8 because that opens up the possibility later on of the 1.4x/2x converter, or shooting in low light.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

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#2344452 28-Oct-2019 17:20

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#2344493 28-Oct-2019 17:30

Talkiet:

Batman:

you don't need a 7D to shoot racing cars.

even a 700D will be fine. why 700D - it has 9 cross type AF points.

you don't need a 70-200 2.8 that thing weighs a tonne, a 70-200 f/4 IS L can be had for 700 bucks - it's as sharp if not sharper than a $3000 lens. so get that one if you can find one.

though i always find that i want that 300mm reach .... but the secret gem of photography is the 70-200 F/4 IS L

I've shot motorsport with a lot of Canon digital bodies (D30 / D60 / 10D / 30D / 350d / 450d / 40D / 1D / 1D2 / 1d2N / 1d3 / 5d / 6d / 1d4 / 1ds2 / 5d3 / 7d / 7d2 and 1dx) and while a 700D will get the shot usually, and some types of motorsport aren't that challenging - you'l get the shot more often with a better AF system like the 7d2 (or later 5D and 1D series obviously)...

The 70-200 2.8 doesn't weigh much if you are carrying only that and a body - but yes, the F4 version is definitely an excellent choice - and if weight is an issue, then a 7d2 + 70-200 (older non IS or newer IS models) will be a stunning combo.

I mentioned a second hand 2.8 because that opens up the possibility later on of the 1.4x/2x converter, or shooting in low light.

Cheers - N

That's true, the 3 digit series Canon bodies while they should work fine for stationary subjects, could be a dog to use for fast action. I can see how the 700D AF system could be found wanting trying to track fast moving objects. Also takes fewer shots per second.

How much is the 7D2 though - are we getting up there in terms of the price?

Whatever you do don't buy a 7D (version 1). The PQ is the worst I've ever seen from a high end camera.

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#2344494 28-Oct-2019 17:52

What's your budget limit? For sports shooting, there is nothing that compares to the Sony A9's 20fps and with the A9 II due shortly, the prices should come down.

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#2344514 28-Oct-2019 19:06

Olympus OMD EM1X

It has AI in the autofocus with a special mode specifically for shooting Motorsport cars and bikes. Also, because it is a crop sensor, the lenses are smaller and lighter despite also being astonishingly good.

It's also dust proof, freeze proof and weather sealed. It has a high speed mode of 60fps if you can make do without AF for each frame (for example where the cars are passing through a specific point like a corner apex) and will still manage 18fps with AF in every shot.

MarkH67

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#2344520 28-Oct-2019 19:40

Scott3:

I am only familiar with the canon ecosystem.

At the cheaper end of the spectrum, I would go for what I have, an 800D with a 55-250 STM lens. Can get that combo for around $1300 if you shop around. At that price dust & moisture is a lesser concern.

The lens is very well reviewed, and because it is designed for crop camera's, it is a lot cheaper and lighter than full frame glass.

I think I'll rule out that idea as my 10D with 28-135 IS lens worked, but the lens sucked in dust. The main issue was zooming in/out as the car moved to keep it framed, shooting several photos of each car but wound up sucking air in as the dust was flying.

What I want is a reasonably well dust-sealed body and lens, with the lens definitely NOT an air pump.

Scott3:

The next step up I would consider is the 90D (it has a new sensor, that was just released), with the latest 70-200 F4 lens. That way you pick up dust/water resistance, "L" grade glass, non-breathing lens, and constant aperture.

I don't see a compelling reason to go full frame or mirror-less for your application. Full frame (unless you go to 1DX level has worse frame rates etc), and DSLR is still good for fast action, especially if you don't care about size.

Don't forget a polarizing filter and spare battery (two if you go mirrorless)

A new 90D and a 2nd hand 70-200 f4 IS lens would make a great combination, well worth considering.

A polarising filter is probably something I wouldn't bother with, I had one for my 28-135 IS and only used it once or twice over a bunch of years. I did keep a UV filter on the lens to protect the front element though.

I get that full frame isn't needed for the WRC photography. But I don't plan to own a selection of different interchangeable lens cameras, so what I buy will be my one 'good camera system' that I would use for anything that I want to drag my heavy photo gear to. Both my phone & my Panasonic Lumix FZ-80 have tiny sensors and can't match the high ISO performance of a FF or APC-S or micro four thirds sensor.

I'm not convinced that mirrorless would let me down. For example the M6 Mk II uses the same sensor as the 90D and offers 14 frames per second in continuous shooting mode with full auto focus tracking - worse frame rates? But the M6 Mk II doesn't have the weather sealing whereas the 90D does. I also am not impressed with the EOS M mount which needs an adaptor to use EF lenses (that's not so bad) and isn't compatible with the RF mount which would shut me out of future lenses. I probably wouldn't buy the M6 MkII due to the mount & lack of weather sealing.

The Canon lens (70-200 f4 IS) is appealing because it is a really good lens and because there are 2nd hand ones for sale often enough. But I'm not 100% enamoured with the options for the body because I see some definite appeal in going to mirrorless.

Using an EVF does have some drawbacks compared to an optical viewfinder on a D-SLR, BUT there are some definite advantages to using an EVF too. I'm not completely happy with the viewfinder on the Sony Alpha a7 III and will be watching out for a possible release of a MkIV version of the a7. The a7R Mk IV is a really appealing camera and I definitely would like to own one of those. The a7R Mk IV has the res to be able to work as an APC-S camera to provide a longer zoom, with still plenty of res. But when you don't need to crop the image you have a LOT of res and the full wide angle of any suitable lens. For the a7R MkIV the biggest problem I have is the $6K price for the body only, apart from that I'd definitely be happy to own that camera!

MarkH67

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#2344521 28-Oct-2019 19:47

maoriboy:

What's your budget limit? For sports shooting, there is nothing that compares to the Sony A9's 20fps and with the A9 II due shortly, the prices should come down.

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I haven't decided on a budget, I'm just looking at what it costs to get what I want in terms of camera and lens.

I'm not sure that I really care about having 20fps, anything with 10fps or higher should work well enough for me. I think the A7R MkIV is a more impressive camera with the ability to crop much more heavily when required, making the zoom level much less critical.

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#2344581 28-Oct-2019 20:20

Geektastic: Olympus OMD EM1X

It has AI in the autofocus with a special mode specifically for shooting Motorsport cars and bikes. Also, because it is a crop sensor, the lenses are smaller and lighter despite also being astonishingly good.

It's also dust proof, freeze proof and weather sealed. It has a high speed mode of 60fps if you can make do without AF for each frame (for example where the cars are passing through a specific point like a corner apex) and will still manage 18fps with AF in every shot.

i had forgotten about the X, I have the Mark 1, and shot the Mark 2 when I was in Japan last year. The M2 is an improvement over the M1 for sure.

Am I correct in that the MX is a sport-focused specialist version of the M2? If so, would be an awesome choice.

Geektastic

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#2344608 28-Oct-2019 21:57

BlinkyBill:
Geektastic: Olympus OMD EM1X

It has AI in the autofocus with a special mode specifically for shooting Motorsport cars and bikes. Also, because it is a crop sensor, the lenses are smaller and lighter despite also being astonishingly good.

It's also dust proof, freeze proof and weather sealed. It has a high speed mode of 60fps if you can make do without AF for each frame (for example where the cars are passing through a specific point like a corner apex) and will still manage 18fps with AF in every shot.

i had forgotten about the X, I have the Mark 1, and shot the Mark 2 when I was in Japan last year. The M2 is an improvement over the M1 for sure.

Am I correct in that the MX is a sport-focused specialist version of the M2? If so, would be an awesome choice.

Yes sort of.

It certainly had features that suit it well to sports with the exception of truly long fast glass.

If you are intent on shooting with 800mm f2.8 lenses or whatever those esoteric behemoths are that you see on the touchline and which cost about $20,000 each, then you can't because there aren't any.

However there is a 300mmf4 which equates to 600mm fov on a 35mm sensor.

There's a 150-400 f4.5 due it next year, which is 300-800 equivalent.

Both those will be much lighter and cheaper than FF.

The X is a brilliant camera. I have two of them.

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#2344612 28-Oct-2019 22:17

Geektastic:
BlinkyBill:

Geektastic: Olympus OMD EM1X

It has AI in the autofocus with a special mode specifically for shooting Motorsport cars and bikes. Also, because it is a crop sensor, the lenses are smaller and lighter despite also being astonishingly good.

It's also dust proof, freeze proof and weather sealed. It has a high speed mode of 60fps if you can make do without AF for each frame (for example where the cars are passing through a specific point like a corner apex) and will still manage 18fps with AF in every shot.

i had forgotten about the X, I have the Mark 1, and shot the Mark 2 when I was in Japan last year. The M2 is an improvement over the M1 for sure.

Am I correct in that the MX is a sport-focused specialist version of the M2? If so, would be an awesome choice.

Yes sort of.

It certainly had features that suit it well to sports with the exception of truly long fast glass.

If you are intent on shooting with 800mm f2.8 lenses or whatever those esoteric behemoths are that you see on the touchline and which cost about $20,000 each, then you can't because there aren't any.

However there is a 300mmf4 which equates to 600mm fov on a 35mm sensor.

There's a 150-400 f4.5 due it next year, which is 300-800 equivalent.

Both those will be much lighter and cheaper than FF.

The X is a brilliant camera. I have two of them.

I don't think an 800mm 2.8 exists ... only 5.6 .... but can it take a selfie?

Scott3

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#2344632 28-Oct-2019 23:47

MarkH67:

A new 90D and a 2nd hand 70-200 f4 IS lens would make a great combination, well worth considering.

A polarising filter is probably something I wouldn't bother with, I had one for my 28-135 IS and only used it once or twice over a bunch of years. I did keep a UV filter on the lens to protect the front element though.

I get that full frame isn't needed for the WRC photography. But I don't plan to own a selection of different interchangeable lens cameras, so what I buy will be my one 'good camera system' that I would use for anything that I want to drag my heavy photo gear to. Both my phone & my Panasonic Lumix FZ-80 have tiny sensors and can't match the high ISO performance of a FF or APC-S or micro four thirds sensor.

I'm not convinced that mirrorless would let me down. For example the M6 Mk II uses the same sensor as the 90D and offers 14 frames per second in continuous shooting mode with full auto focus tracking - worse frame rates? But the M6 Mk II doesn't have the weather sealing whereas the 90D does. I also am not impressed with the EOS M mount which needs an adaptor to use EF lenses (that's not so bad) and isn't compatible with the RF mount which would shut me out of future lenses. I probably wouldn't buy the M6 MkII due to the mount & lack of weather sealing.

The Canon lens (70-200 f4 IS) is appealing because it is a really good lens and because there are 2nd hand ones for sale often enough. But I'm not 100% enamoured with the options for the body because I see some definite appeal in going to mirrorless.

Using an EVF does have some drawbacks compared to an optical viewfinder on a D-SLR, BUT there are some definite advantages to using an EVF too. I'm not completely happy with the viewfinder on the Sony Alpha a7 III and will be watching out for a possible release of a MkIV version of the a7. The a7R Mk IV is a really appealing camera and I definitely would like to own one of those. The a7R Mk IV has the res to be able to work as an APC-S camera to provide a longer zoom, with still plenty of res. But when you don't need to crop the image you have a LOT of res and the full wide angle of any suitable lens. For the a7R MkIV the biggest problem I have is the $6K price for the body only, apart from that I'd definitely be happy to own that camera!

The M6 does sound really nice. I hadn't seen one before, and just looked it up. Picks up the new sensor, matching the 90D, but at a much cheaper pricepoint.

With regards to my comment's it's not that there is anything wrong with the canon M series mirrorless camera's, but a key selling point does seem to be their smaller size an weight. This is reflected in the native lense lineup too. For example all zoom lens's telescope (for more compact storage dimensions), and the long EF-M zoom lens is a 55-200 f/4.5 - 6.5. Compare that to the EF-S equivalent 55-250 f/4 - 5.6. The EF-S glass is longer, and faster.

If you are going to be adapting to EF big white lenses, you will end up with a lot of lens hanging of a tiny body, which could make the grip on something like the M6 II a bit small.

With mirror-less camera's, check what the veiwfinder does in fast shooting mode. Some black out completly, and some give a slideshow of photos taken only (slightly lagging the action).

With regards to full frame Mirrorless, the high speed modes of the EOS R were a little less than my 800D, Probably still OK though. Seems that some SONY full frames blow this away.

Note that just announced RF 70-200 F/2.8 lens is telescoping (although it is does advertising dust and water sealed).

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#2346314 30-Oct-2019 14:10

If I wasn't planning on entering the event, I'd definitely be up there taking photos also. And unless the camera fairy visited, I'd be dragging the Canon 7D out of the cupboard for the event.Quite happily ran that with an 18-200 lens on the front for a few years worth of events. But predictably, it's full of dust now.

If I was looking to photograph more than about 1 event every couple of years I'd certainly be looking at the 7D mk2, purely because I like that particular line of bodies.

Frame rate is less of a concern vs focus tracking which, from experience, is far more likely to catch you out. Most spots tend to have a fairly wide range of distances to capture the cars so the focus will definitely be needing to change as you follow the cars through the corner sequence you are covering.

8 fps on the 7D was more than sufficient for getting 2000 odd photos in a day. The downside to that being the amount of time required to wade through them afterwards.

But if you stay at a stage point right until the end of the field, be sure to wave to the silver WRX pottering along getting far better value for money (spending way more time in the stages) than the top runners. :-)

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#2346370 30-Oct-2019 16:12

IMO 7D MkII & 70-200 F2.8 L if the budget allows would be an epic combo. The crop sensor can actually be helpful unless you are shooting night or indoors.

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