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alasta
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  #542140 7-Nov-2011 18:13
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Talkiet: You can't go wrong with either, but I would caution against investing in a brand other than Nikon or Canon if you think you might ever want to grow the system - Sony, Olympus etc produce some decent cameras, but they don't have the same range of lenses or accessories, and generally they aren't quite up with the big boys.


I would think that very few non-professional users would ever want more than a standard zoom, telephoto zoom, fast normal, and macro. These should all be available for any established camera system. In fact that majority of people who own interchangeable lens cameras probably don't even go beyond the lenses that were supplied with their cameras. 

I agree that it pays to think ahead, and specialist lenses will undoubtedly be important to some people, but it's important to remember that there would be very few people who would invest many thousands of dollars on photographic equipment for casual use. 

Talkiet
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  #542145 7-Nov-2011 18:20
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alasta:
Talkiet: You can't go wrong with either, but I would caution against investing in a brand other than Nikon or Canon if you think you might ever want to grow the system - Sony, Olympus etc produce some decent cameras, but they don't have the same range of lenses or accessories, and generally they aren't quite up with the big boys.


I would think that very few non-professional users would ever want more than a standard zoom, telephoto zoom, fast normal, and macro. These should all be available for any established camera system. In fact that majority of people who own interchangeable lens cameras probably don't even go beyond the lenses that were supplied with their cameras. 

I agree that it pays to think ahead, and specialist lenses will undoubtedly be important to some people, but it's important to remember that there would be very few people who would invest many thousands of dollars on photographic equipment for casual use. 


Fair comments... I guess I am struggling with any reason to NOT choose one of the big two... What do the other brands offer that Nikon and Canon don't?

The 4/3 and micro 4/3 mount used by Panasonic for example has a smaller form factor which certainly is helpful in some cases, but these other brands don't really enjoy a price advantage, so I would really struggle to come up with a reason to buy a DSLR from Pentax, Sony, Olympus, Panasonic etc...

Another advantage to staying mainstream is the much much better availability of second hand accessories...

But you do make a fair point - if someone is going to buy a system and stay with it, then system expandability and availability of esoteric lenses shouldn't be a deciding factor.

Cheers - N





--

 

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


 
 
 
 


timmmay
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  #542165 7-Nov-2011 18:41
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Talkiet:
timmmay:
Zippity: Go for a Canon EOS


I just sold $12K worth of Canon gear and bought $17K of Nikon gear due to ongoing focus issues, with 8 bodies and a dozen high end lenses over 5 years. Nikon works great... so I disagree.

At the low end it probably makes little difference. Canon's cheaper... maybe for a reason.


What a pointless and unhelpful post this is, after you very helpful ones earlier.

I happen to have a canon 1d3, 1d4 (and have had 4 other 1 series and a 5) along with a full set of pro lenses and the only problem I've ever had was a 300 2.8 IS that needed a focus adjustment. I bought it second-hand and I knew it needed adjusting before I bought it. It's now perfect.

Both Nikon and Canon produce superb results. With the odd exception (Canon did screw up the initial 1d3 AF - although that was still overblown) focus issues are down to users expecting too much from the camera or not understanding how it works properly.

At the low end, both companies produce cheap DSLRs that will give amazing results and there's not much appreciable difference between them. Try both and see which one you like more - they do have a slightly different feel to them ergonomically.

You can't go wrong with either, but I would caution against investing in a brand other than Nikon or Canon if you think you might ever want to grow the system - Sony, Olympus etc produce some decent cameras, but they don't have the same range of lenses or accessories, and generally they aren't quite up with the big boys.

Cheers - N

ps. Yes, Zippity's post was pointless and unhelpful too - but you know better.


I don't think my post was unhelpful. Many wedding professionals have left Canon because of focus issues - but many have had no problems too. It's not technique, given I switched from Canon to Nikon and my in focus rate went up massively. I've been through all that, time and time again, talking to Canon, research online, testing on tripods, thousands of dollars spent with CPS for calibration, etc, etc. I wasn't usually using 1 series bodies though, 40D, 7D, and a bit with a 1D3, and a bunch of L lenses. The 1D3 was better, but not perfect. Anyway, I don't really want to get into the details. For most people, amateur and professional, Canon or Nikon is fine.

alasta
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  #542172 7-Nov-2011 18:54
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Talkiet: Fair comments... I guess I am struggling with any reason to NOT choose one of the big two... What do the other brands offer that Nikon and Canon don't?


Good question. I'd be struggling to think of any major point of difference in favour of the minor DSLR manufacturers.

The 4/3 and micro 4/3 mount used by Panasonic for example has a smaller form factor which certainly is helpful in some cases, but these other brands don't really enjoy a price advantage, so I would really struggle to come up with a reason to buy a DSLR from Pentax, Sony, Olympus, Panasonic etc...


Panasonic don't actually do DSLRs any more - they never really got any traction in that market so they quite rightly decided to throw all their resources into the Micro 4/3 platform. I suspect that Olympus will eventually go the same way.

Personally I'm really enthused about Micro 4/3 particularly because portability is important to me, but I can understand that the compromises might not appeal to people who shoot high ISO or who need a lot of control over depth of field. In any case it's very interesting to see the different ways that manufacturers are approaching the compact interchangeable lens market.

timmmay
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  #542173 7-Nov-2011 18:55
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Micro 4/3 is meant to be pretty good for video too. The smaller sensor is still much better than a P&S, but not as good as a full sized DSLR. I'd probably get a compact 4/3 system for a holiday camera.

Bowering
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  #542176 7-Nov-2011 19:05
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One thing to consider for a new DSLR user might be the availability of good lenses with the right mounts. My old Nikon 55mm Macro f2.8, for example, works wonderfully with the digital bodies and there are plenty around on the second hand market. Same for the f2.8 80-200 zoom. Backwards compatibilty can save a lot when building a new kit from scratch. I believe that both Nikon and Canon are pretty good with that (Nikon slightly better?? Dunno).

Overall though, in my experience what matters most is whether a camera feels 'right' to me. If you want to grab it and take pics you will. If you hesitate because it's a hassle then you won't.

timmmay
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  #542180 7-Nov-2011 19:11
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Canon EOS bodies can all drive EF lenses. Nikon are a little more varied. Modern Nikon lenses have focus motors in the bodies, and can be used on any Nikon body. Older Nikon lenses rely on a motor in the body, which the lower end Nikon bodies don't have.

I'm not sure about the details, as I only use modern lenses on modern bodies.

 
 
 
 


Bowering
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  #542184 7-Nov-2011 19:20
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True Timmay. With Nikon you can also use the really old manual lenses on most/all (??) bodies as well. Nice if you can borrow or buy an old fisheye or macro etc. And you can always sell them as they're always useful to someone! :-)

listudio
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  #542315 8-Nov-2011 00:03
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timmmay:
Zippity: Go for a Canon EOS


I just sold $12K worth of Canon gear and bought $17K of Nikon gear due to ongoing focus issues, with 8 bodies and a dozen high end lenses over 5 years. Nikon works great... so I disagree.

At the low end it probably makes little difference. Canon's cheaper... maybe for a reason.



Making such judgement you deserve an 'egg' on your head by the Canon users Laughing


But I think this post is helpful. I am waiting to buy Canon 5D Mark III and ready to spend a lot of $ on lenses. I heard of even Canon 5D Mark II having focus issue. And other medium to low price range Canon cameras have got focus problem as well.  Hoping the next generation 5D Mark III will fix the problem. Canon 5D Mark II video function is no doubt superb, as I see a lot of great videos on Vimeo shot by MarkII.
   

timmmay
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  #542375 8-Nov-2011 09:20
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The 5D series is reasonably accurate, not perfect, but quite slow to use and to focus. The 7D/1D4 AF system (they're very similar) was meant to solve everything, but it was actually worse for me. When it wouldn't focus on static objects Canon/CPS told me it wasn't made for that, it was an action camera. The CPS rep didn't understand the difference between AI servo and one shot mode either. Plus CPS refused me a loan 1D4 to try out, even though I was CPS gold, and the D700 I borrowed to try out worked perfectly, so I jumped ship.

Jaxson
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  #542383 8-Nov-2011 09:32
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timmmay: At the low end it probably makes little difference.


Actually I think that's a fair comment.

There are pros and cons to all gear and the game is matching your key requirements to a units strengths.

Chainsaw
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  #542493 8-Nov-2011 12:17
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Talkiet:

Fair comments... I guess I am struggling with any reason to NOT choose one of the big two... What do the other brands offer that Nikon and Canon don't?

As an ex Pentax owner I can tell you that I miss having shake reduction (=VR, IS, OS, VC) in every lens I had, yes even the wide angles, it was very very useful (some say it isn't useful at short focal lengths, but it is). I even bought a 50 year-old lens and it has SR, because it's in the camera, not the lens (= cheaper lenses). Pentax also has the best backwards compatibility for lenses of any brand, including Nikon.

I also miss the very quiet shutter of the K-7 I had, lovely it was. I miss the smaller size and lighter weight, don't know why N and C insist on making such large, heavy cameras.

I miss the weather-sealing of the Pentax, their top bodies are fully weather-sealed, and it's very well done and documented. Apparently my Nikon D300s has some, but I can't find anything official about it, just internet "knowledge", Nikon remain very quiet about just what it can withstand.

The latest Pentax K-5 has the same sensor in it as the D7000, they're both amazing.

The one and only reason I swapped to nikon was for faster AF for sport shooting (apparently the latest K-5 is faster than the K-7 I had), if I didn't shoot a lot of sport I would still be with Pentax.

The Pentax menu and user mode system I still believe is superior to my Nikon, the way it dealt with auto-ISO is much more logical.

So what do the others offer - similar or better features for less money.

alvin
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  #542500 8-Nov-2011 12:24
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I'm interested on getting a black rapid strap. I'm torn between the R5 and R7. It seems that R5 is much better because of its extra pockets and phone compartment. I'm not sure if it is bulky with all of the extra pockets. R7 it seems is ergonomically designed and compatible with MODS. It is the plastic locking/buckle of the R7 that I'm concerned about. Anyone has any recommendations please.

Thanks

Zippity
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  #542524 8-Nov-2011 12:51
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Forgive me for not wanting to appear here as a "know it all" pushing my own barrow.

I'll know better for next time :( :(

timmmay
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  #542571 8-Nov-2011 13:45
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alvin: I'm interested on getting a black rapid strap. I'm torn between the R5 and R7. It seems that R5 is much better because of its extra pockets and phone compartment. I'm not sure if it is bulky with all of the extra pockets. R7 it seems is ergonomically designed and compatible with MODS. It is the plastic locking/buckle of the R7 that I'm concerned about. Anyone has any recommendations please.

Thanks


I don't know anything about the straps, but it really depends what you use your camera for and how many cameras you use at a time (for example at a wedding I carry two bodies).

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