Building a credible competitor to TradeMe

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Forums › Startups › Building a credible competitor to TradeMe

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733 posts

Ultimate Geek

#698815 10-Oct-2012 00:46

heres the original trademe:

http://web.archive.org/web/19990422062834/http://www.trademe.co.nz/

It was free back then.

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Kyanar

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#698851 10-Oct-2012 07:59

reven: what i would consider

7. provide pay by credit card for free (trademe charge you for this)

This is impossible. Credit card transactions attract a commission to the bank/card network of around 2% + $0.50 per transaction, so to let you use credit cards for free means they would be absorbing massive losses. Traditional retailers can do this by spreading it over their entire inventory so the fees are squeezed into insignificance, but Trademe is an auction platform.

Kyanar

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#698854 10-Oct-2012 08:06

sleemanj:
2. Populate the site with boat loads of products, which they get from approaching retailers and distributors with the following offer: "..., but the price must be X% cheaper than you sell anywhere else".

House of Travel tried this. It got them a Commerce Commission investigation for price fixing. I'm pretty sure this isn't legal in New Zealand.

oxnsox

1923 posts

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#698903 10-Oct-2012 10:13

ajobbins: I really don't think you grasp how complex the Trade Me systems are. We are talking 13 years worth of continuous development and improvement with a reasonable sized team of developers. This simply is not something that you can replicate in a short period of time, much less as a a lone developer.

There are new on-line start-ups everyday, they're all there to sell something (even if it's only 'Brand-awareness') and a number are exclusive e-commerce sites. At some stage one of these companies will challenge the TradeMe space. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen.

freitasm

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#698917 10-Oct-2012 10:21

Moved this to a more appropriate forum.

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ajobbins

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#698954 10-Oct-2012 10:57

The resources are available, the technology is present, it has been done before and with a good team, it could be done again. If your opinion is that it would take 18 months to get a functional auction site off the ground using the proper the resources available today (in other words, not doing it 'on the cheap'), I really disagree with your assessment. But that's just my opinion. I only used to work with engineers at companies like Sun, Oracle, Cisco and eBay....so that's where my frame of reference is coming from.

What you're not taking into account tho (and this applies to all sites that you have listed above) is how those companies and their products have matured over the years. While you might be able to replicate the functionality of Trade Me that you know about, there is a HUGE amount that goes on in the background that you would have to re-learn yourself. None of these are off the shelf products, and not all of how their applications work and the technology behind them is in the public domain.

All of those websites (Trade Me, eBay, Amazon, etc etc) are constantly evolving - be it a major refresh, or some changes to the SQL in the background to shave a few milliseconds off the page load time. This isn't something you can just build. Any new player to the market is going to have to learn a LOT of lessons for themselves before their product is mature enough to be considered in the same league as Trade Me (or eBay or whatever).

If you manage to build a functional action website to complete with Trade Me, and manage to get a critical mass of users to make the site viable - I still think you would be on dangerous ground. Wait for the scammers to hit you, for example. Trade Me had the benefit of learning these lessons as they grew. They leant how they operate and were able to react, at a time where, with a smaller user base, the impact might not have been so major. As they grew they were able to adapt. Any new player who comes in with a flood of users (as would need to happen) has to be bloody sure that they are prepared for masses of people to be ripped off. This both from a technology perspective (Detection, Identification, Reaction) as well as being able to deal with the media, the customers etc etc etc. That's just one example (One I had a lot of experience with).

Twitter: ajobbins

ajobbins

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#698955 10-Oct-2012 10:59

Kyanar:
sleemanj:
2. Populate the site with boat loads of products, which they get from approaching retailers and distributors with the following offer: "..., but the price must be X% cheaper than you sell anywhere else".

House of Travel tried this. It got them a Commerce Commission investigation for price fixing. I'm pretty sure this isn't legal in New Zealand.

Flight Centre is being charged by the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) for the same thing.

Twitter: ajobbins

gundar

488 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#698980 10-Oct-2012 11:27

Instead of everybody dreaming, why don't we make a list of awesome features, get a few votes and start a community sourced project? Facebook, HP, Apple, they weren't the first of their kinds and they all started on their owners money in a basement (or so I am told).

ajobbins

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#698988 10-Oct-2012 11:43

gundar: Instead of everybody dreaming, why don't we make a list of awesome features, get a few votes and start a community sourced project? Facebook, HP, Apple, they weren't the first of their kinds and they all started on their owners money in a basement (or so I am told).

I think there is space for a complementary market that could exist along side Trade Me with a different focus.

eBay/Craigslist/Amazon for example. In some ways our Mighty Ape is a bit like Amazon. It doesn't really compete with Trade Me, but at the same time it kinda does (and does pretty well).

I don't think Trade Me will be around forever - but I don't think they (or eBay overseas) will be toppled either.

What I do think will happen is that at some point there will be a paradigm shift that happens faster than the incumbents can adapt to, and someone smaller and more nimble will pop up and win that space.

Just has happened with Trade Me vs. Trade & Exchange

Twitter: ajobbins

DonGould

3892 posts

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#699004 10-Oct-2012 12:04

gundar: Instead of everybody dreaming, why don't we make a list of awesome features, get a few votes and start a community sourced project? Facebook, HP, Apple, they weren't the first of their kinds and they all started on their owners money in a basement (or so I am told).

It's being done. What do you think the thread is really about?

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

zaptor

741 posts

Ultimate Geek

#699005 10-Oct-2012 12:06

Interesting thread.

It is easier to build systems from new - that's true.

However, it is also very hard to modify an existing "legacy" production system. Particularly large monotholic systems with various integrated dependencies. For a company to modify such a system (non-bug fix enhancement) there has to be a business case, especially if it's a significant architectural change.

The advantage with building from scratch is you don't have to deal with any or very few legacy limitations. You can design and implement the features you want out that outset. Plus, it is considerably cheaper to add these features to a new system than to an existing one.
The disadvantage is that a new system has to go through a teething process - both pre- and post- production, the cost of which often correlates to both system complexity and testing resource.

The advantage of an existing system is it just works. The kinks have been ironed out (the ones that really matter anyway), it's running live production traffic, and most importantly generating revenue.
The disadvantage is that adding new nice-to-have features is difficult and costly.

My 2 cents.

DonGould

3892 posts

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#699006 10-Oct-2012 12:07

ajobbins: None of these are off the shelf products, and not all of how their applications work and the technology behind them is in the public domain.

lol.... :)

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

crackrdbycracku

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#699007 10-Oct-2012 12:08

DonGould:
gundar: Instead of everybody dreaming, why don't we make a list of awesome features, get a few votes and start a community sourced project? Facebook, HP, Apple, they weren't the first of their kinds and they all started on their owners money in a basement (or so I am told).

It's being done. What do you think the thread is really about?

Are you posting from the smoking back room where 'they' wear grey suits and do deals behind closed doors?

Cool!

Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

DonGould

3892 posts

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#699028 10-Oct-2012 12:31

crackrdbycracku: Are you posting from the smoking back room where 'they' wear grey suits and do deals behind closed doors?

Cool!

lol

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

gundar

488 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#699036 10-Oct-2012 12:43

crackrdbycracku:
DonGould:
gundar: Instead of everybody dreaming, why don't we make a list of awesome features, get a few votes and start a community sourced project? Facebook, HP, Apple, they weren't the first of their kinds and they all started on their owners money in a basement (or so I am told).

It's being done. What do you think the thread is really about?

Are you posting from the smoking back room where 'they' wear grey suits and do deals behind closed doors?

Cool!

Keep it down or everybody else will want in...

Seriously, the way to take on TradeMe-like web empires will be to not fight on their turf and not employ any of their known mechanisms, that is, the successor will need to use a new weapon in a new way. It doesn;t have to be specially expensive high tech or magical, it just has to be something new.

Example: The first time I saw Facebooks templated design, I though it would fail because MySpace offers customised profile pages. I was wrong then, too.

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