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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1307846 19-May-2015 15:57
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damn this would be really helpful. Anything from the OP? cry




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Reply # 1307849 19-May-2015 16:01
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The dev just didn't update.

gzt

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  Reply # 1307872 19-May-2015 16:24
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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1307930 19-May-2015 18:47
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gzt: This one? http://www.athopbalance.co.nz/


No, the developer on this thread promised using your phone in lieu of an AT-HOP card. The app you reference grabs the balance from the website.

I was very keen to see this happen, but I don't know of any phone app that successfully emulates a DESfire transit card.

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  Reply # 1323887 13-Jun-2015 10:32
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As great an idea as this is and as much as AT need innovation of this sort - They won't go for it mate.

 

In 2013 I was hired as a contractor to take over parts of the AT HOP, My HOP online services project. I inherited a project that was already 3 months overdue. Since then they have REDUCED their offerings. They used to have an interactive smartphone app that ran out of AWS - Now its just a crappy webpage.

They are fighting SO many fires at AT that something like this will never get in front of a decision maker.

 

 

 

The main things that they battle are - The relationship between Telus and the payment gateway. It simply doesn't work, massive queues, hence why credit card top ups take 48 hours to process.

 

Also the AT HOP website itself is heavily under resourced.But - If there is anything you want to know about how the system works internally and where your points of integration might likely be - Talk to me. I can put you in touch with the various decision makers if you have something ready to market.

 

 

 

IMO - Your best approach would be to talk to the technology providers TO Auckland Transport and see if they are interested in your system. Most of AT's providers are in perpetual dispute with them over service levels etc. If your app could let customers top of their accounts, that might be something Telus is interested in.

 

 

 

Anyway - The IT Department at AT is run buy a bunch of old farts who don't understand technology. Almost the entire infrastructure operates out of Microsoft Sharepoint and SAP. 

 

 

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  Reply # 1323888 13-Jun-2015 10:38
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Its worth noting that as part of their cost recovery from having to pay Snapper out but still move to Telus - They try to recover this cost through the purchase of their cards...Thats why they are $15.

 

 

 

Its also worth nothing that their infrastructure was built by Microsoft. Its not just any setup, it was a massive Microsoft project supported by Microsoft Mission Critical Support based in Redmond.

 

 

 

There are SO many flaws in the AT system that make it difficult to use their services in the intended way - I applaud you.

 

 

 

Also - cloning a card won't allow users to commit fraud. Every Tag On/Off is hooked up to a ubiquity wireless transmission that updates user balances and their geo history in realtime. So the card is merely a password to the account.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1323922 13-Jun-2015 11:40
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swine: Also - cloning a card won't allow users to commit fraud. Every Tag On/Off is hooked up to a ubiquity wireless transmission that updates user balances and their geo history in realtime. So the card is merely a password to the account.


I don't think that is the case. The AT-HOP card is a stored value card with the purse value held on the card itself, the back-end system trails the actions performed on the card as the transactions are relayed from the busses at a later time. An AT-HOP card can be used for transport with no active internet connection. An online top-up has to update the purse on the card before it can be used, this requires the card to be used on transport equipment with up to date action lists.

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  Reply # 1323925 13-Jun-2015 11:43
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roobarb:  An online top-up has to update the purse on the card before it can be used, this requires the card to be used on transport equipment with up to date action lists.


and that is BS, why does a card need to be tagged to make the money available to the user?

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  Reply # 1323926 13-Jun-2015 11:45
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roobarb: but I don't know of any phone app that successfully emulates a DESfire transit card.


NXP and Gemalto are pushing MIFARE4mobile v2.1.1, this puts the DESFire emulation directly on the SIM or secure element. You may have heard of Gemalto, they provide the backend for Semble.

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  Reply # 1323927 13-Jun-2015 11:48
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Jase2985: and that is BS, why does a card need to be tagged to make the money available to the user?


Because it is a stored-value card! You have to tag the card to use it, and if you have a pending top-up action, it will be applied to the card at the same time as the tag-on.

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  Reply # 1323930 13-Jun-2015 11:50
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roobarb:
swine: Also - cloning a card won't allow users to commit fraud. Every Tag On/Off is hooked up to a ubiquity wireless transmission that updates user balances and their geo history in realtime. So the card is merely a password to the account.


I don't think that is the case. The AT-HOP card is a stored value card with the purse value held on the card itself, the back-end system trails the actions performed on the card as the transactions are relayed from the busses at a later time. An AT-HOP card can be used for transport with no active internet connection. An online top-up has to update the purse on the card before it can be used, this requires the card to be used on transport equipment with up to date action lists.

 

So what exactly are you disagreeing with?

 

 

 

Even buses that go to Waiwera will deduct money immediately if you Tag off at Waiwera.

 

 

 

They have a wireless setup in buses for this....yes there probably are a lot of dead zones so it probably isn't always available.


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1323932 13-Jun-2015 11:53
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swine: So the card is merely a password to the account.


The purse amount is stored on the card. A tag-on deducts money directly from the purse on the card, not by doing any online access.

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  Reply # 1323933 13-Jun-2015 11:56
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Personally - I've always thought something basic like using SMS Shortcodes would be a much simpler, more reliable and realtime method of using public transport. Plus you can rely on the billing/transaction system of a mobile provider rather than having to create your own.

 

 

 

Top up your phone, it sends you back a unique key, walk onto the bus, type the key in to tag on and type it in again to tag off and then it sends you another key to use for your next trip.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1323937 13-Jun-2015 12:01
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Contactless payments are the fasted way to get passengers onto the busses. Bus companies would prefer plastic cards to people faffing around with SMS and typing codes in to get on and off.

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  Reply # 1323938 13-Jun-2015 12:02
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roobarb:
swine: So the card is merely a password to the account.


The purse amount is stored on the card. A tag-on deducts money directly from the purse on the card, not by doing any online access.
Tag on doesn't deduct anything....Tag off does.

 

 

 

The Train stations Tag On/Off system is absolutely networked and centralised.

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