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  Reply # 1323958 13-Jun-2015 12:07
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swine: Tag on doesn't deduct anything....Tag off does.   The Train stations Tag On/Off system is absolutely networked and centralised.


There is no network activity to a centralised system during the 300ms for a tag-on/tag-off. The transactions is all performed with the data stored on the card or action lists already downloaded.


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  Reply # 1323960 13-Jun-2015 12:11
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roobarb: Contactless payments are the fasted way to get passengers onto the busses. Bus companies would prefer plastic cards to people faffing around with SMS and typing codes in to get on and off.

 

 

 

Entering a 6 digit code or something takes 2 seconds. The code only gets sent to a phone thats registered to a user so they get their profile.

 

 

 

At the moment the train system is hemoraging SO much money from people not paying. I reckon probably as much as 1/4 of passengers don't pay.

 

 

 

And also the bus Tag On/Off has a MAJOR flaw in it. You can tag on as you enter the bus, walk down the back by the back door and tag off using the second machine. You get a free ride.

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  Reply # 1323962 13-Jun-2015 12:16
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roobarb:
swine: Tag on doesn't deduct anything....Tag off does.   The Train stations Tag On/Off system is absolutely networked and centralised.


There is no network activity to a centralised system during the 300ms for a tag-on/tag-off. The transactions is all performed with the data stored on the card or action lists already downloaded.

I've been in a bus before and my card was showing declining. I spoke to the bus driver and radio'd someone and got them to do something to the card.

 

I then tagged on again and got the green. There has to be -some- level of network for that to have happened.

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  Reply # 1323985 13-Jun-2015 12:33
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swine: I've been in a bus before and my card was showing declining. I spoke to the bus driver and radio'd someone and got them to do something to the card. I then tagged on again and got the green. There has to be -some- level of network for that to have happened.


Yes, but not during the 300ms tag-on/tag-off. A likely scenario is the driver radio somebody to add an action-list item, it was pushed down to the bus. When you tagged on the second time it was using the updated lists.

My point is the purse value is stored on the card. If you have the ability to clone a card and that clone is accepted by the system, then you can also put any arbitrary value into that purse.

Anyhow, this mobile app seems to have fallen by the wayside. Without support from AT there is no practical way of cloning a card and having it accepted.

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  Reply # 1323994 13-Jun-2015 12:41
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swine: And also the bus Tag On/Off has a MAJOR flaw in it. You can tag on as you enter the bus, walk down the back by the back door and tag off using the second machine. You get a free ride.

You can say something similar for any scenario where the user tags off any stop prior to the destination stop.

Personally I don't expect to get my money back if I get on a bus and then get off again, and it looks like that is easily fixed.

Train platforms may be a differnet case. But my unrelated systems experience tells me that feature may exist for a specific reason not yet identified.

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  Reply # 1323997 13-Jun-2015 12:42
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gzt:
swine: And also the bus Tag On/Off has a MAJOR flaw in it. You can tag on as you enter the bus, walk down the back by the back door and tag off using the second machine. You get a free ride.

You can say something similar for any scenario where the user tags off any stop prior to the destination stop.

Personally I don't expect to get my money back if I get on a bus and then get off again, and it looks like that is easily fixed.

Train platforms may be a differnet case. But my unrelated systems experience tells me that feature may exist for a specific reason not yet identified.

No I mean you can tag on/off when you get on and then just stay on the bus as long as you want for no charge.

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  Reply # 1324000 13-Jun-2015 12:46
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swine: No I mean you can tag on/off when you get on and then just stay on the bus as long as you want for no charge.


That is a case for ... the ticket inspector!

gzt

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  Reply # 1324002 13-Jun-2015 12:50
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swine: Entering a 6 digit code or something takes 2 seconds. The code only gets sent to a phone thats registered to a user so they get their profile.

The time it takes for some sometimes even with the simple card system.... The drivers will be giving phone lessons all day while you wait.. and wait.. and..

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  Reply # 1324019 13-Jun-2015 13:17
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gzt:
swine: Entering a 6 digit code or something takes 2 seconds. The code only gets sent to a phone thats registered to a user so they get their profile.

The time it takes for some sometimes even with the simple card system.... The drivers will be giving phone lessons all day while you wait.. and wait.. and..

Nah - You have the code already on your phone - its up to you to get it before your bus comes....The bus driver wouldn't be responsible for it.

 

The passenger would literally JUST enter the code.

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  Reply # 1324034 13-Jun-2015 13:41
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Here is an example of SMS ticketing, though it does not describe how the ticket is validated.

https://www.hsl.fi/en/tickets-and-fares/sms-ticket

It may just be shown to the driver, which would be more efficient than passengers typing codes in.

I like the part which says you get a penalty if you try and SMS a ticket while already on the vehicle.


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  Reply # 1324040 13-Jun-2015 13:49
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gzt:
swine: And also the bus Tag On/Off has a MAJOR flaw in it. You can tag on as you enter the bus, walk down the back by the back door and tag off using the second machine. You get a free ride.

You can say something similar for any scenario where the user tags off any stop prior to the destination stop.



You won't get a free ride - you'll simply pay the minimum zone price.



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  Reply # 1324041 13-Jun-2015 13:50
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swine:
roobarb: Contactless payments are the fasted way to get passengers onto the busses. Bus companies would prefer plastic cards to people faffing around with SMS and typing codes in to get on and off.
  Entering a 6 digit code or something takes 2 seconds. The code only gets sent to a phone thats registered to a user so they get their profile.   At the moment the train system is hemoraging SO much money from people not paying. I reckon probably as much as 1/4 of passengers don't pay.   And also the bus Tag On/Off has a MAJOR flaw in it. You can tag on as you enter the bus, walk down the back by the back door and tag off using the second machine. You get a free ride.


Entering a code is just a lot more complicated than just putting your card near a terminal to tag on and off. There are also a lot of questions that can be asked about this method..

If you tag on at the front then tag off at the back, does it charge you minimum fare of one stage though?




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  Reply # 1324042 13-Jun-2015 13:51
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roobarb:
Jase2985: and that is BS, why does a card need to be tagged to make the money available to the user?


Because it is a stored-value card! You have to tag the card to use it, and if you have a pending top-up action, it will be applied to the card at the same time as the tag-on.


and again its BS, especially when the pending transactions only last 60 days before you have to have them manually applied and then you need to tag them again. why does it need to be a stored value card?

ive had $20 sitting pending for 6 months now becuase ive been unable to tag on and when i have, it turns out the $20 has expired.

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  Reply # 1324043 13-Jun-2015 13:51
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swine:
gzt:
swine: Entering a 6 digit code or something takes 2 seconds. The code only gets sent to a phone thats registered to a user so they get their profile.

The time it takes for some sometimes even with the simple card system.... The drivers will be giving phone lessons all day while you wait.. and wait.. and..

Nah - You have the code already on your phone - its up to you to get it before your bus comes....The bus driver wouldn't be responsible for it. The passenger would literally JUST enter the code.


You won't believe how many people will have trouble with that...




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  Reply # 1324045 13-Jun-2015 13:54
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swine:
roobarb:
swine: Tag on doesn't deduct anything....Tag off does.   The Train stations Tag On/Off system is absolutely networked and centralised.


There is no network activity to a centralised system during the 300ms for a tag-on/tag-off. The transactions is all performed with the data stored on the card or action lists already downloaded.

I've been in a bus before and my card was showing declining. I spoke to the bus driver and radio'd someone and got them to do something to the card. I then tagged on again and got the green. There has to be -some- level of network for that to have happened.


Whenever I have to call up AT to do something to my card e.g add a concession or transfer balances or do a refund, they always say it will take 7 - 10 days. I don't think they did anything to your card in this situation, it just probably failed to tag on the first few times then when you tried it again on your third or so go, it worked. I've seen many of the same scenarios happening on the bus these days. It doesn't work the first few times, leave it for a while and try again, and it gives the green light.




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