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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 556559 11-Dec-2011 10:17
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sbiddle:
ajw:
sbiddle:
ajw:
freitasm: Telecom built the network with the spectrum available.



With respect, part one of the Telecom exercise was 850 MHZ GSM and 2100MHZ for UMTS this was ditched about six months into the contract (and a waste of millions of dollars) for a dedicated 850/2100 3G network.
There are only three countries in the world that have this type of network.
TelecomNZ, Telstra Australia, and AT&T in the USA. Hence the higher cost of handsets and lack of handset choice. Please correct me if wrong.




Last I heard there were around 50 live 850MHz WCDMA networks in the world. Google hasn't helped me much in finding an exact number.

All of North America uses this (both USA and Canada) and most of the countries in South America also use this band. Smartel have also deployed 850Mhz in Hong Kong, Vodafone have deployed 850MHz in Aussie, 850Mhz is used in Thailand, and is also being deployed in some Eastern European markets. It's also expected that this band will eventually be used in the UK for mobile.


My statement was dedicated 850/2100 UMTS networks not dedicated 850 on its own or 2100 MHZ on its own.
Check out the link for your self

http://maps.mobileworldlive.com/


And I listed a lot of the countries who have deployed 850MHz UMTS networks - it's not limited to 3 networks in 3 countries like you inferred. There are now millions and millions of users on 850MHz WCDMA networks globally.

The fact Telecom have deployed 2100Mhz means nothing - it's there purely for capacity since they own the management rights for the spectrum. 2100MHz band I isn't available in North America, or most of the South American countries that have deployed networks, so they can't use this for additional capacity. In North America and Canada only part of band I is available, hence the AWS 1700/2100 split for FDD.


I think they were referring to countries that have just an 850mhz UMTS/HSDPA network, as in, a network that does not have an underlying GPRS network, ie Telecom XT and so on.

I may be wrong though, this is just my interpretation.

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  Reply # 556579 11-Dec-2011 12:44
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Regs:  restricted to the 900/2100 3g bands (most likely by special request of vodafone here or globally).



"Special Request"? I think you're seeing conspiracies where really, none exist. Neither Vodafone nor 2degrees specially request phones that only work on 900/2100 bands. We may request phones that work on the 900/2100MHz instead of the 850/1900/AWS bands if those are the options. But that's because phones that work on 850/900/1700/1800/1900/2100 are only filtering into the market very lately.

Why would we care if you paid us full price for a phone and then used it on XT? Sure, we'd like you to use it on our network, but we prefer to sell you a phone you can use somewhere else than to sell you nothing at all.




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  Reply # 556997 12-Dec-2011 14:52
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codyc1515:
Regs: vodafone either chooses, or directs manufacturers to supply, models that dont work on telecom.  a couple of exceptions would be the iphone and, in the past, the palm treos.

Any sources for this otherwise its BS?


i dont mean that vodafone NZ specifically ask manufacturers to produce devices that are specifically designed not to work on telecom ZN... i meant that vodafone, globally, might specifically order a variant of a handset that supports only the frequencies they use themselves.  also some of the US networks probably do the same to end up with a device that supports only 850/2100.

no source, pure speculation.  should have been a bit clearer on that in the post...

what is the difference between handsets, e.g. nokia 6120/6121. where one supports 850/2100 and the other supports 900/2100?  Do they have different physical radio chips?  Would it actually cost more to make a tri-band device - is a tri-band radio more expensive than a dual-band radio?  It would seem logical that a triband phone with one set of chassis, printing, packaging, user guides etc would be better economy of scale.




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  Reply # 557007 12-Dec-2011 14:57
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Regs:
codyc1515:
Regs: vodafone either chooses, or directs manufacturers to supply, models that dont work on telecom.  a couple of exceptions would be the iphone and, in the past, the palm treos.

Any sources for this otherwise its BS?


i dont mean that vodafone NZ specifically ask manufacturers to produce devices that are specifically designed not to work on telecom ZN... i meant that vodafone, globally, might specifically order a variant of a handset that supports only the frequencies they use themselves.  also some of the US networks probably do the same to end up with a device that supports only 850/2100.

no source, pure speculation.  should have been a bit clearer on that in the post...

what is the difference between handsets, e.g. nokia 6120/6121. where one supports 850/2100 and the other supports 900/2100?  Do they have different physical radio chips?  Would it actually cost more to make a tri-band device - is a tri-band radio more expensive than a dual-band radio?  It would seem logical that a triband phone with one set of chassis, printing, packaging, user guides etc would be better economy of scale.

I would imagine that it would be as simple as swapping out one equally priced chip for another and printing off the same documentation just mentioning that the 6120, for example, was 850/2100 and the 6121 was 900/2100. Honestly, I can't see it being cheap to manufacturer a tri-band vs. dual-band device.

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  Reply # 557010 12-Dec-2011 15:02
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Regs:   It would seem logical that a triband phone with one set of chassis, printing, packaging, user guides etc would be better economy of scale.


It is, now. But up until recently the added cost of a multi-band chip has been significantly more than the cost of doing a search'n'replace in the user manual to produce a second version. It might only 5c a unit, but that adds up.




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  Reply # 557098 12-Dec-2011 17:11
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SaltyNZ:
Regs:   It would seem logical that a triband phone with one set of chassis, printing, packaging, user guides etc would be better economy of scale.


It is, now. But up until recently the added cost of a multi-band chip has been significantly more than the cost of doing a search'n'replace in the user manual to produce a second version. It might only 5c a unit, but that adds up.


Take a look at the Nokia Lumia 800 windows phone in the UK.  The initial specs showed a 'pentaband' phone, but later switched to show a 900/1900/2100 variant only.  Telecom has, by word of mouth, announced that the lumia is coming to their network in feb 2012, so there now has to be either a pentaband version, or another variant.

So is it still more expensive to have a pentaband model, or is it being done for competitive reasons now?




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  Reply # 557155 12-Dec-2011 19:12
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Regs:

So is it still more expensive to have a pentaband model, or is it being done for competitive reasons now?


Look, I don't make phones for a living so I can't say with insider knowledge. But it stands to reason: there are probably three versions of the radio chip - 900/2100, 850/2100 and all bands. Is it more expensive to make the 3.3GHz version of a microprocessor versus the 3.2GHz version? Probably not. But maybe the 'slow' one doesn't work at the faster speed. Or maybe it does, but Intel marks it slower because they can sell more.

I imagine radio chips are the same. Some final parts work on all bands; some only work on some bands. The ones that only work on some bands have the bad bands disabled. Some of the ones that work on all bands have a band disabled.

Hardware with more features = more expensive buy price. And if I have the choice between absorbing a higher buy price to get a feature that is useless on my network versus saving it, then I'll save it. It's nothing to do with some grand conspiracy to lock phones out of competitor's network, and all to do with saving $1 x 1 million units.




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  Reply # 557157 12-Dec-2011 19:13
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Regs: maybe the 'slow' one doesn't work at the faster speed. Or maybe it does, but Intel marks it slower because they can sell more.

Side note: This happens.

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  Reply # 557172 12-Dec-2011 19:35
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codyc1515:
Regs: maybe the 'slow' one doesn't work at the faster speed. Or maybe it does, but Intel marks it slower because they can sell more.

Side note: This happens.


that wasnt my quote...




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BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 557174 12-Dec-2011 19:36
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  Reply # 557176 12-Dec-2011 19:38
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Regs:
codyc1515:
Regs: maybe the 'slow' one doesn't work at the faster speed. Or maybe it does, but Intel marks it slower because they can sell more.
 
Side note: This happens.
 

that wasnt my quote...

freitasm: codyc1515, please use quote correctly. This is not the first time you "misquote". People don't like this.


Whoops, sorry about that. It complained something about the quote markup not matching so I changed it until it worked. My bad.
Embarassed

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 557276 13-Dec-2011 08:36
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Just to let you know that the Telecom Geekzone team won't talk about Skinny issues, because Skinny will be a seperate team to us.

As a background, the Skinny team have their own offices in Auckland, their own technology and service platforms, and very definitely their own way of doing things. They are backed by Telecom and are on the XT network, but other than that they are on their own!

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  Reply # 557280 13-Dec-2011 08:43
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Any chance of introducing them to geekzone??




Regards,

Old3eyes


ajw

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  Reply # 557281 13-Dec-2011 08:45
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old3eyes: Any chance of introducing them to geekzone??


+1 once they launch issues will arise.

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