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ajw

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  Reply # 556238 10-Dec-2011 09:40
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freitasm: If they had gone 850 MHz GSM there would be problems in the future when they needed 3G coverage. 2100 MHz spectrum wasn't available everywhere, and it performs terribly in cities, with low range in rural areas. 850 MHz 3G is the best future proof move they could've done.


It is unfortunate that Telecom did not think of this when negotiating with Alcatel-Lucent for a $384million contract to convert its network to GSM.

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  Reply # 556259 10-Dec-2011 10:10
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ajw:
freitasm: Telecom built the network with the spectrum available.



With respect, part one of the Telecom exercise was 850 MHZ GSM and 2100MHZ for UMTS this was ditched about six months into the contract (and a waste of millions of dollars) for a dedicated 850/2100 3G network.
There are only three countries in the world that have this type of network.
TelecomNZ, Telstra Australia, and AT&T in the USA. Hence the higher cost of handsets and lack of handset choice. Please correct me if wrong.




Last I heard there were around 50 live 850MHz WCDMA networks in the world. Google hasn't helped me much in finding an exact number.

All of North America uses this (both USA and Canada) and most of the countries in South America also use this band. Smartel have also deployed 850Mhz in Hong Kong, Vodafone have deployed 850MHz in Aussie, 850Mhz is used in Thailand, and is also being deployed in some Eastern European markets. It's also expected that this band will eventually be used in the UK for mobile.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 556261 10-Dec-2011 10:26
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I've found this last (which isn't current) of 850MHz networks in the Americas.

Canada (Bell, Rogers, Sasktel, Telus), USA (AT&T, Cordova), and then 1 or more networks in Mexico, Peru, Columbia, Costa Rico, Ecuador, Guam, Brazil and Guatemala.

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  Reply # 556283 10-Dec-2011 11:59
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I see at as good to get cheaper phone,  being locked in to one carrier.

Just once it''s been done, a precedence has been set  and there's a risk other networks could start locking phones without discounting handsets, so no benefit for final consumers. Time frame may be longer then 9 months. If prices charged are competitive and service meeting peoples needs then they're not going to want to change anyway, far better way keeping customers then forcing them to be locked in. If telecom wants minuim spend to help with cost of phone, wouldn't bundling in prepay credit with purchase of phone be better way. 9 months doesn't guarantee any spend, income for telecom, just problem might be how other networks react and then telecom reacts back once this road is allowed to be traveled.

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  Reply # 556302 10-Dec-2011 12:16
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ajw:
freitasm: Telecom built the network with the spectrum available.



With respect, part one of the Telecom exercise was 850 MHZ GSM and 2100MHZ for UMTS this was ditched about six months into the contract (and a waste of millions of dollars) for a dedicated 850/2100 3G network.
There are only three countries in the world that have this type of network.
TelecomNZ, Telstra Australia, and AT&T in the USA. Hence the higher cost of handsets and lack of handset choice. Please correct me if wrong.



You forget about Rogers , Canada




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Old3eyes


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  Reply # 556303 10-Dec-2011 12:18
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ajw:
freitasm: If they had gone 850 MHz GSM there would be problems in the future when they needed 3G coverage. 2100 MHz spectrum wasn't available everywhere, and it performs terribly in cities, with low range in rural areas. 850 MHz 3G is the best future proof move they could've done.


It is unfortunate that Telecom did not think of this when negotiating with Alcatel-Lucent for a $384million contract to convert its network to GSM.


Why on earth would you want to do that . It's like asking TVNZ to build out a new analog TV network.. GMS is basically like CDMA a dead technology.




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  Reply # 556316 10-Dec-2011 12:46
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ajw:
freitasm: Telecom built the network with the spectrum available. 

 

With respect, part one of the Telecom exercise was 850 MHZ GSM and 2100MHZ for UMTS this was ditched about six months into the contract (and a waste of millions of dollars) for a dedicated 850/2100 3G network. 
There are only three countries in the world that have this type of network. 
TelecomNZ, Telstra Australia, and AT&T in the USA. Hence the higher cost of handsets and lack of handset choice. Please correct me if wrong. 

Would I be correct in saying that all of these networks lock their handsets?

freitasm: If they had gone 850 MHz GSM there would be problems in the future when they needed 3G coverage. 2100 MHz spectrum wasn't available everywhere, and it performs terribly in cities, with low range in rural areas. 850 MHz 3G is the best future proof move they could've done.

They made the decision to make the network like that, therefore they have to live with the consequences.

rugrat: I see at as good to get cheaper phone,  being locked in to one carrier. 

Just once it''s been done, a precedence has been set  and there's a risk other networks could start locking phones without discounting handsets, so no benefit for final consumers. Time frame may be longer then 9 months. If prices charged are competitive and service meeting peoples needs then they're not going to want to change anyway, far better way keeping customers then forcing them to be locked in. If telecom wants minuim spend to help with cost of phone, wouldn't bundling in prepay credit with purchase of phone be better way. 9 months doesn't guarantee any spend, income for telecom, just problem might be how other networks react and then telecom reacts back once this road is allowed to be traveled.

How is it good if carriers cannot compete on price, except if phones are locked?

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  Reply # 556333 10-Dec-2011 13:23
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codyc1515:
freitasm: If they had gone 850 MHz GSM there would be problems in the future when they needed 3G coverage. 2100 MHz spectrum wasn't available everywhere, and it performs terribly in cities, with low range in rural areas. 850 MHz 3G is the best future proof move they could've done.

They made the decision to make the network like that, therefore they have to live with the consequences.


The same way Vodafone decided to make their network 900/2100 Mhz, they have to live with the consequences. 

Not all spectrum is available to all networks. If they can have a single spectrum better for them. There's no "live with consequences". It works well for everyone, I don't see a problem. 

codyc1515: How is it good if carriers cannot compete on price, except if phones are locked?


Because at some point they drive the prices so low they can't sustain investments, payments with that.

 




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Reply # 556343 10-Dec-2011 13:33
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My point is quite simply that if you all allow this to happen (sim locking on Skinny) what is going to happen as a result is that the other carriers will follow suit as the prices will simply be far too cheap to compete with being non-sim locked. Also, forget using your phone overseas without the always exorbitant roaming pricing, the phones will be locked and not able to accept a local sim. Would that not be anti-competitive?

freitasm: 
codyc1515: How is it good if carriers cannot compete on price, except if phones are locked?
 

Because at some point they drive the prices so low they can't sustain investments, payments with that. 

That is their own choice, nobody is forcing them to do that.

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  Reply # 556346 10-Dec-2011 13:36
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as a general rule*, phones bought from XT will work no problems on Vodafone or 2Degrees networks.
As a general rule*, phones bought from Vodafone or 2Degrees will notwork on XT network.

To look at it that way, simlocking is simply an attempt at levelling the playing field (except it still isn't level because Skinny customers have the option of paying the $30 fee to get their handset to work on 2Degrees network if they want to switch. 2Degrees customers have no way of doing anything to get their handset to work on XT if they want to ditch 2Degrees.

(*Note that I said "general rule". there are,of course, some exceptions such as the iphone which is quad band 3G)

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  Reply # 556347 10-Dec-2011 13:36
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Let me take a quote from previously: "If your phone only works with a Skinny SIM, you won’t be able to just use a foreign SIM while you’re there.". Also, the argument doesn't fly with me: just how much do they need to subsidize a Huawei C2800?

Come on!


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  Reply # 556348 10-Dec-2011 13:37
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NonprayingMantis: there are,of course, some exceptions such as the iphone which is quad band 3G

And look at Australia: they are all locked, even on a contract.

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  Reply # 556365 10-Dec-2011 14:11
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Is it just me or is skinny kind of a crap name?

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  Reply # 556367 10-Dec-2011 14:12
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uglyb0b: Is it just me or is skinny kind of a crap name?

Agreed.

z2k

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  Reply # 556388 10-Dec-2011 16:16
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NonprayingMantis: as a general rule*, phones bought from XT will work no problems on Vodafone or 2Degrees networks.
As a general rule*, phones bought from Vodafone or 2Degrees will notwork on XT network.

To look at it that way, simlocking is simply an attempt at levelling the playing field (except it still isn't level because Skinny customers have the option of paying the $30 fee to get their handset to work on 2Degrees network if they want to switch. 2Degrees customers have no way of doing anything to get their handset to work on XT if they want to ditch 2Degrees.

(*Note that I said "general rule". there are,of course, some exceptions such as the iphone which is quad band 3G)


is everyone forgetting the fact that most 2degrees and Vodafone phones won't work on XT because of hardware restrictions where as Skinny locking a phone to its own network is an artificial restriction which stops you (the buyer) from doing something the phone was originally able to do?

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