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  Reply # 745945 16-Jan-2013 21:16
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Our home was built during 2011. The antenna/phone/network cables come down through the same space between studs, but different holes in the nogs (the holes might be 30cm apart, give or take). Then the cables come together where the power socket is in one wall plate and the antenna/phone/network socket in a plate next to it. Do you guys say this is not legal?

In one wall we certainly do not have the separation as there is power and data near the floor as well as halfway up the wall, and it is mirrored in the adjacent room. I've actually got photos of what it looks like pre-gib (after sound proofing batts). There is even a draw wire to pull future data wires past power sockets...

This was done by the same guy that installed indoor rated down lights outside, and issued an electrical certificate with the wrong number of power points/sockets on it. He is a registered electrician and AV installer. But I do know what I'm doing regarding safety so I can look after myself.




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  Reply # 745959 16-Jan-2013 21:33
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cyril7: Hi, AS/NZ3000-2007 was issued in .....................2007, but the separation requirement has been there from way before that, we are talking 15yrs or more.

I work in an industry where we are managing data and electrical installers who flaunt this law daily, and the ELWB (electrical wiring board) are now taking note and persecuting these electricians who are placing the public safety at risk.

Cyril


Persecuting? Crikey, that's one way of getting people to follow the rules, rather than simple one off fines!




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  Reply # 746026 16-Jan-2013 23:12
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@Neil.. My point exactly. Seems like bit.of a grey area when.all cables come.together to a single wall plate.
How does that pass Cyril?

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  Reply # 746036 16-Jan-2013 23:26
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Well they make flushboxes with dividers in them to allow voice/data and power plates to go along side each other and get a shared cover plate, so you would expect that they intend cables to run to those flushboxes so it would be ok.

Also we had no issues with data coming down the same gap between studs as wires for light switches etc. Hard not to when studs are so damn far apart in NZ buildings.




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  Reply # 746085 17-Jan-2013 07:47
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Hi, in AU/NZ it is explicitly illegal to place an ELV and LV service on the same faceplate and hence flush box, this is coverd in PTC106 section 5.1.3, which inturn is referenced in AS/NZ3000-2007.

You can get flushboxs with appropriate faceplates that provide suitable separation, however they are not permitted for us in AU/NZ but are very common in the US.

Cyril

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  Reply # 746151 17-Jan-2013 09:33
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cyril7: Hi, in AU/NZ it is explicitly illegal to place an ELV and LV service on the same faceplate and hence flush box, this is coverd in PTC106 section 5.1.3, which inturn is referenced in AS/NZ3000-2007.

You can get flushboxs with appropriate faceplates that provide suitable separation, however they are not permitted for us in AU/NZ but are very common in the US.

Cyril


Yeah, thats why the clipsal 2000 and another similar system do the separate flush plate solution.

Im not sure if the dodgey installs I have seen with the extra mechs removed from a power point with extras was a dodgey sparky or a DIY job, but I hate the idea of all that exposed coax F connector (assuming its not a saddle back one) being that close to 230 in there.

US flushboxes are weird. You have to mount the normal NZ box behind the gib, not flush with it, so really they should be called behind-boxes or something, yet the US ones mount infront of the gib somewhat, so should be called stickout boxes. How they deal with the extra thickness sticking out when stopping is something I dont understand, must make it really really hard.




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  Reply # 746159 17-Jan-2013 09:53
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richms:  How they deal with the extra thickness sticking out when stopping is something I dont understand, must make it really really hard.


Ha, yeah NZ ones are often full of gib stopping gunk.



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  Reply # 746168 17-Jan-2013 10:09
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Never had any intention of using same plate.. Was always going to be a seperate plate.
Just wanted to guide both down same hole

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  Reply # 746174 17-Jan-2013 10:23
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thetree13: Never had any intention of using same plate.. Was always going to be a seperate plate.
Just wanted to guide both down same hole


Which is illegal unless you provide a durable barrier (flexible conduit is good) of separation through the hole and clear of the hole, but I doubt you can assure that the two maintain separation once in the wall cavity.

Cyril

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  Reply # 746183 17-Jan-2013 10:31
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I know that same hole is a problem, but I was under the impression that same cavety was perfectly fine so long as there is separation? There are not a hell of a lot of cavitys on a typical kiwi wall to be able to put them in seperate ones.




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  Reply # 746188 17-Jan-2013 10:34
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But both wires are taped together and pulled through the same hole, sounds like you cannot assure separation, where as if both were in separate holes say 100mm or so apart in the top plate and noggins then there is some assurance that separation will be satisfied.

Cyril

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  Reply # 746192 17-Jan-2013 10:38
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cyril7: Hi, in AU/NZ it is explicitly illegal to place an ELV and LV service on the same faceplate and hence flush box, this is coverd in PTC106 section 5.1.3, which inturn is referenced in AS/NZ3000-2007.


In the interests of ensuring the greatest number of people possible are aware of these safety standards, these are now pay to view, not free to all.  However, some of the content is available here:

http://www.telepermit.co.nz/Ptc106.pdf

http://www.telepermit.co.nz/PtcSpecs.html



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  Reply # 746211 17-Jan-2013 10:54
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Thanks for info and advice.
So now the question is how does one go about boring a new hole?
I certainly don't have a drill bit of that diameter and if i did it wouldn't be 2 metres long.???

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  Reply # 746212 17-Jan-2013 10:59
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Walls are hollow (unless it's a concrete wall?) so you only need to drill down into the top of the wall, through the top piece of timber... 10mm diameter should do it for a single cable...

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  Reply # 746216 17-Jan-2013 11:01
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ubergeeknz: Walls are hollow (unless it's a concrete wall?) so you only need to drill down into the top of the wall, through the top piece of timber... 10mm diameter should do it for a single cable...


Till you get to the noggins, I assume this TV cable is to go to a location roughly 300mm off the floor.

Cyril

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