Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 
3267 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 77

Trusted

  Reply # 869689 1-Aug-2013 08:20
Send private message

Rules changed a while ago, currently importers must hold the certificate on record not just the manufacturer and in any shop you can demand a copy and they are supposed to be able to give it to you also (but I suspect shops do not know this).

Most of the tests in NZ are based upon EU tests, the exception usually being building code related. Emission, susceptibility, and electrical safety all are very close to EU.

If the lights have an external driver, then you can just replace the drivers with locally sourced drivers and you are fine. The LEDs themselves are considered extra low voltage with no electrical safety requirements. This is a big advantage for external driver lights, if you design it right then you can add more lights without getting an electrician (just like with 12V halogens).

If the drivers are integrated, then you would need to modify them so that you can use an external, locally sourced driver. If that sounds like too much trouble, and if the lights are 120mm cut-outs, I'll be interested in getting them off you.




You can never have enough Volvos!


170 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 47


  Reply # 874305 9-Aug-2013 00:10
Send private message

i ordered 18 led downlights from china. saa and c-ticked (in addiion to ce, rohs etc), good feedback from other customers, that was enough for me. recieved the product and you can tell the build quality is not nasty cheap. they werent IC rated so i just left some breathing room around the heatsink when insulating. price was about a third of a comparable product in NZ

14342 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1862


  Reply # 874306 9-Aug-2013 00:31
Send private message

greenbone: i ordered 18 led downlights from china. saa and c-ticked (in addiion to ce, rohs etc), good feedback from other customers, that was enough for me. recieved the product and you can tell the build quality is not nasty cheap. they werent IC rated so i just left some breathing room around the heatsink when insulating. price was about a third of a comparable product in NZ


I have been tempted to buy some from china, but how can you be assured that the certifications are real, and not just copied on? My biggest worry about the cheap ones are them overheating. Then here is the life of them, it could be false economy. The ones in NZ maybe triple the price, but they also may not be the same, just look the same, and may have the proper certification. At least they can  be returned to the retailer in NZ if they fail.

21447 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4354

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 874307 9-Aug-2013 00:38
Send private message

Thankfully that fear keeps NZ retailers ticking over with their obscene markups and poor selection. ;)

How do you know that the NZ retailer is selling products that have really been tested? How do you know that they will be there in 5-6 years time if the lights fail? Will you ever see a return on spending 3-4x as much as you would on imported ones? I dont think you will unless you expect them all to fail in a few years time.




Richard rich.ms

14342 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1862


  Reply # 874308 9-Aug-2013 00:42
Send private message

richms: Thankfully that fear keeps NZ retailers ticking over with their obscene markups and poor selection. ;)

How do you know that the NZ retailer is selling products that have really been tested? How do you know that they will be there in 5-6 years time if the lights fail? Will you ever see a return on spending 3-4x as much as you would on imported ones? I dont think you will unless you expect them all to fail in a few years time.


Thats true, but then again the local companies could be in a lot of trouble if they are selling something which they say has a certificate , when it isn't real. I suspect with the flood of LED bulbs on the market, if there is a problem with safety, there maybe some regulation in NZ on them in the future. But companies who sell them currently must be making some pretty good margins on them. It is that fear that got me buying philips ones, which can almost be guaranteed to be safe, due to being a premium lighting brand.

14138 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2544

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 874320 9-Aug-2013 06:32
Send private message

Are you insured off your cheap lights burn the house down, or with unknown cause fires? Leaving space around down lights seriously reduces insulation.




AWS Certified Solution Architect Professional, Sysop Administrator Associate, and Developer Associate
TOGAF certified enterprise architect
Professional photographer


1609 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 170

Subscriber

  Reply # 874337 9-Aug-2013 08:18
Send private message

timmmay: Are you insured off your cheap lights burn the house down, or with unknown cause fires? Leaving space around down lights seriously reduces insulation.


doubt you would be insured if the insurance gods found out. 
Also, Im not sure why people leave space, when they can simply cut back/remove then old insulation and go buy a bale or two of the newer stuff thats downlight friendly. 
Im sure the cost of the 1 or two bales would be eaisly saved in power down track from not having heat loss. 



1772 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 620

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 874508 9-Aug-2013 12:19
Send private message

Goosey:
Also, Im not sure why people leave space, when they can simply cut back/remove then old insulation and go buy a bale or two of the newer stuff thats downlight friendly. 
Im sure the cost of the 1 or two bales would be eaisly saved in power down track from not having heat loss. 




Because unless you are using a fitting which is insulation rated (IC under the current rules) you will definitely not be insured if you have a fire and the fitting is insulated over. You should only ever insulate over an IC rated fitting, anything else, especially the old style developer special downlights, won't be rated for it.

12 posts

Geek


  Reply # 875565 12-Aug-2013 06:24
Send private message


Did you check on the suppliers website for any certificates. IF they have them they can be downloaded. If they dont show them you can suspect they dont have them.
I always check for certificates before looking at the product

From the Electrical safety regulations which can be downlded

81 Evidence of compliance with standards
(1) A test report or certificate of conformity that shows how that a
low voltage fitting or appliance complies with AS/NZS 3820
or any standard listed in Schedule 4 is conclusive evidence,
in the absence of proof to the contrary, of compliance with
regulation 80.

If you look at wiki it says that CE certificate is an abbreviation of french for certificate electrique. This is a common form of certification for exports to europe. The certificate lists the IEC standard for which the component is tested. Schedule 4 lists the IEC standard test required in NZ

2515 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 541
Inactive user


  Reply # 875571 12-Aug-2013 07:28
Send private message

mattwnz:
richms: Thankfully that fear keeps NZ retailers ticking over with their obscene markups and poor selection. ;)

How do you know that the NZ retailer is selling products that have really been tested? How do you know that they will be there in 5-6 years time if the lights fail? Will you ever see a return on spending 3-4x as much as you would on imported ones? I dont think you will unless you expect them all to fail in a few years time.


Thats true, but then again the local companies could be in a lot of trouble if they are selling something which they say has a certificate , when it isn't real. I suspect with the flood of LED bulbs on the market, if there is a problem with safety, there maybe some regulation in NZ on them in the future. But companies who sell them currently must be making some pretty good margins on them. It is that fear that got me buying philips ones, which can almost be guaranteed to be safe, due to being a premium lighting brand.


Actually the margins on lighting are relatively small for the importer. They have to use high quality products, and ensure that high quality parts are used, they also have to pay for testing of the product to ensure it meets standards as well as assume any potential liability for any catastrophic failure, then there is running the infrastructure and offering the service levels in NZ.

At the end of they day it is the individuals choice if they want to take the risk themselves or have an import company take that risk, personally, I'd let the company take the risk.

1 | 2 
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.