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  Reply # 871569 4-Aug-2013 14:02
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My alarm's up there as well, no problems for the year it's been in. They're probably built for it though.

Hammerer, how did you vent your ceiling cavity? I have no vents in mine, it sounds like a good idea for summer. For winter it probably doesn't make much difference either, it's cold either way.

Thanks for the cap info RM.




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  Reply # 871575 4-Aug-2013 14:41
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I'd probably go with a proper wall mount rack cabinet like this and a small aircon unit (like this) ducted to it if I were putting gear in the ceiling, but that's just me...




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  Reply # 871576 4-Aug-2013 14:42
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timmmay: My alarm's up there as well, no problems for the year it's been in. They're probably built for it though.

Hammerer, how did you vent your ceiling cavity? I have no vents in mine, it sounds like a good idea for summer. For winter it probably doesn't make much difference either, it's cold either way.

Thanks for the cap info RM.


I'm planning to move my UPS up beside the alarm system. This discussion has convinced me to leave my consumer devices out of the ceiling cavity. Fortunately, I do have space for a wall cabinet just below the alarm system which could contain my cable modem, router and security video recorder.

My roof is vented using the old vent for a toilet that we replaced. It saved me having to get a council permit which is required for putting a hole through the roof. I made a cover so rain doesn't normally blow in.



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  Reply # 871611 4-Aug-2013 16:28
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I figured I could vent the ceiling via the eaves, but going up makes more sense if you have something there already.

No way would I spend $500 on a rack cabinet and more on an air conditioner. I'll probably go with the earlier suggestion of moving something from cupboards up there, then put the equipment in a top cupboard. I can leave the cupboard door open for ventilation.




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  Reply # 871626 4-Aug-2013 17:25
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timmmay: Niel, can you explain why the power supplies will have more problems in the ceiling cavity than in the body of the house. It's the same power source, the only difference is temperature variation.


As someone else already said, ITE power supplies are made to a low price point and NOT designed by the equipment manufacturer unless the circuit is integrated with the main circuit board (which you often find with DVRs, alarms, etc).  Capacitors are the #1 failure component, it is an electrochemical components which ages.  Secondly is the quality of the actual design, how marginal the power supply noise is and how susceptible the equipment is.

I design high end agricultural equipment with a designed life of 5-7 years outside, consumer products are designed for 3 years at room temperature.  There is a big difference in the approach to design, and the expectation of consumers.  The farmer wants to preserve his data at all cost, the consumer wants the lowest price possible.

Both approaches will work for you, with one you will have issues from time to time and with the other you will not know of the issues you would have had.




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  Reply # 871646 4-Aug-2013 17:59
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Thanks for your advice Niel, based on that and others I will rethink - either more care up in the ceiling cavity, or more likely moving other things up there and putting the equipment in the body of the house.




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Reply # 871677 4-Aug-2013 19:39
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Over the last few years I have done the same thing. Approx eight years ago I put a steel coms box up in the atic space to house the tv antenna and dish cabling, sky distribution and circuit boards to control the speaker volume controls for the house sound system. Also an amp for the antenna.

Approx three years ago I put another coms box in to the roof space to house the phone/data distribution patch panels and attached to that is the wireless router. There are three power pak type three pin plugs powering the lot up.

Also the monitored home security alarm and fire alarm system is in the roof space. That's been there for about eight years as well. We also have the indoor air handlers for two aircon units(full of electronics) up there as well.

Never gave it a thought as to heat or cold and the techs who gave me a hand never mentioned it either. It gets really hot in the roof space so much in fact that it is nearly unbearable to go in there on a hot summer day. Same in winter, gets really cold.

One cabinet has a door on it with vent holes top and bottom and the other one does not have a door as there is a forest of cables hanging out of it so we did not fit the door.

Technically it might be correct to enclose the gear and have filtered air going through the box but I have not had any technical problems with this installation the way it is. Nothing has burnt out or failed and the gear is still in clean condition. We have an iron roof. If it was a concrete tile roof you may have more air flow.

On my experience I would most probally proceed  to install the gear in the roof space without worrying to much about the heat unless the manufacturer of the gear you are using states  it must operate within certain temperature limits. 



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  Reply # 871736 4-Aug-2013 21:03
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Thanks for your experience Camden :)




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  Reply # 871897 5-Aug-2013 10:45
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If you are going to assemble the box before putting it up there make sure it fits through the manhole!

Condensation won't be a problem on the inside of the box, it will only form on the outside (if at all).

To prevent the filter cloth clogging you could increase its surface area by having it in a wider box part way along your duct, or zig-zag fold it like in a commercial filter.



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  Reply # 871905 5-Aug-2013 10:59
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Thanks for the tip - I have a huge retractable stairway, but I'd assemble it up there.

Incidentally, I had the stairs insulated. Basically I built a box around it about a foot high, taped and stabled pink batts, and I have an insulated lid with a rubber seal. Because it's so heavy it has two van hydraulic supports to help lift it!




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  Reply # 871928 5-Aug-2013 11:33
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timmmay: Thanks for the tip - I have a huge retractable stairway, but I'd assemble it up there.

Incidentally, I had the stairs insulated. Basically I built a box around it about a foot high, taped and stabled pink batts, and I have an insulated lid with a rubber seal. Because it's so heavy it has two van hydraulic supports to help lift it!


Wouldn't it have been easy to pivot a board with sides to enclose the stairs when closed? It could be balanced so any extra effort is for opening rather than closing. Polyester insulation stapled to the wood means there's no need for boxing because polyester relofts (bounces back after being compressed) and can be stapled at its base to hold it in place. You can even staple (or glue but I haven't tried it) layers to each other.



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  Reply # 871975 5-Aug-2013 12:39
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Hammerer: Wouldn't it have been easy to pivot a board with sides to enclose the stairs when closed? It could be balanced so any extra effort is for opening rather than closing. Polyester insulation stapled to the wood means there's no need for boxing because polyester relofts (bounces back after being compressed) and can be stapled at its base to hold it in place. You can even staple (or glue but I haven't tried it) layers to each other.


We looked at lots of potential designs. Because it's a lowered ceiling we couldn't use any of the standard ones, like a sheet of poly above the stairway, we had to design something new. It's got R3 pink batts all around it, plus 1.5cm thick plywood, so it's pretty good.




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  Reply # 872149 5-Aug-2013 16:30
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Camden:
.... Never gave it a thought as to heat or cold and the techs who gave me a hand never mentioned it either. It gets really hot in the roof space so much in fact that it is nearly unbearable to go in there on a hot summer day. Same in winter, gets really cold. 
 

I'll add my experience here.  For years I ran a small file/web/firewall/router/proxy server in the roof of my house with no care taken about temp or dust. (both of which were pretty chronic from memory)  I may have got lucky, but I managed to have no issues, and my 'cabinet' for it was just a sheet of plywood to put it onto.    I think the advice here is good, and what I'd do with unlimited budget or for a commercial install that I didn't want to have to go back to, but it is possible to get away with less.

Qyiet




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  Reply # 872520 6-Aug-2013 09:42
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Found this pretty interesting, so I thought I'd offer my 2c as well.

I used a domestic data panel and installed it in the wall in the top of a wardrobe. they fit in the wall cavity and the door sits pretty much flush.
All phone, data, and TV is managed in this panel.


I have 2xRJ45 sockets in most rooms, and these become either phone or data sockets based on where they're patched to. RJ12 plugs fit in RJ45 sockets you don't need a converter for telephones, just a cable like the one that comes with the ADSL modem.



It's now got a Server, UPS, and Time Capsule sitting in front of it, so it looks far less tidy.



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  Reply # 872522 6-Aug-2013 09:52
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Thanks for that Andrew, interesting option. What brand/model of panel is that, what do they cost? Are there any issues with heat? I guess you can't put WiFi in there, you'd need some kind of an external antenna.




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