Inward opening, "European style" windows

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Reply # 908604 5-Oct-2013 20:32

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If NZ would get over this mentality that high density housing is bad, then people would build nicer places to live instead of putting a single house onto the back half of an already oversized section that could easily house a lot more people.

But no, we have all these selfish nutters going around campaining against 3 story developments, which they seem to think are 'high rise'.

Richard rich.ms

oxnsox

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Reply # 908610 5-Oct-2013 21:12

In Christchurch I believe they have a unique opportunity to define a Kiwi style high density environment.
Yes it might only be 3-5levels but the individual units could be made a little larger, and have a deck area big enough for a bbq and a table that would suit a couple of families. And of course we could include inward opening windows.....

timmmay

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Reply # 908622 5-Oct-2013 21:56

foobar: Hello everyone and thank you for your replies so far.

Someone asked why we'd like inward opening windows:

One of the biggest reasons to go for inwards opening windows is that you can actually clean them without dealing with long, wobbly contraptions trying to reach high-up 2nd floor windows (especially if they are over a small roof or in a recess) or without breaking your back falling off a latter. Cleaning inwards opening windows is trivially easy.

Secondly, we'd like the fact that you can open the windows all the way and have an unblocked view.

We went to the Homerit factory and looked at some of their windows. They seemed very nice. Someone here said they had heard 'horror stories' about Homerit. We are currently inclined to go with them, so please, if there is some information you have about them, please let me know.

Someone else said that councils might not approve those windows. Do you have some experience to relay or tips on how to deal with that case? That would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much!

So you can clean an open the small fraction of the glass that actually opens? Or does your whole massive window sit on a hinge. Because if it's the former I think's not really a convincing argument for inward opening windows, since you'd have to clean the rest of the window anyway.

If I was building a house I'd consider not having opening windows, just have a ventilation system. Though there may be rules in the building code that says you can't do that. I couldn't get out my windows quickly if there was a fire because of security locks and double glazing... I should probably do something about that actually.

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Fred99

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Reply # 908632 5-Oct-2013 22:22

foobar:

Someone else said that councils might not approve those windows. Do you have some experience to relay or tips on how to deal with that case? That would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much!

I can't see that there'd be any particular issues with building code. After all a window is just an opening like a door - and some doors open outwards, some open inwards. The only issue I'd foresee is that if they were unusual/custom made, and if consent was needed, then an architect/designer might have to do a little more work preparing plans.

I wonder about the architectural reason/history for inward opening windows - my wild guess is that they might have become the norm in cold parts of Europe where external shutters were fitted and closed in winter.

I don't know anything about Homerit brand, but UPVC wasn't a great sales success in NZ. Unless it's well stabilised, PVC doesn't weather well in NZ UV levels. But if it is well stabilised, then it's fine (Same bias in NZ about uPVC guttering - but if you buy a reputable brand, then it lasts quite well, is easy to work with, never rusts, and is easily painted if you want to change decor). I took a quick look at Homerit site, and as well as plain extruded uPVC, they sell co-extruded uPVC/ASA - that might be worth an extra cost.

richms

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Reply # 908635 5-Oct-2013 22:50

There are different wind levels that windows have to be tested to for different areas. Other than that I am not sure what else there is for the council to object to.

But the council do love to object. I know someone that had to fill in a hole for a tree in their garden to get their final sign off, because the delivery of the tree was delayed and the guy doing the sign off was being a dick.

Richard rich.ms

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Reply # 908651 6-Oct-2013 00:07

timmmay:
foobar: Hello everyone and thank you for your replies so far.

Someone asked why we'd like inward opening windows:

One of the biggest reasons to go for inwards opening windows is that you can actually clean them without dealing with long, wobbly contraptions trying to reach high-up 2nd floor windows (especially if they are over a small roof or in a recess) or without breaking your back falling off a latter. Cleaning inwards opening windows is trivially easy.

Secondly, we'd like the fact that you can open the windows all the way and have an unblocked view.

We went to the Homerit factory and looked at some of their windows. They seemed very nice. Someone here said they had heard 'horror stories' about Homerit. We are currently inclined to go with them, so please, if there is some information you have about them, please let me know.

Someone else said that councils might not approve those windows. Do you have some experience to relay or tips on how to deal with that case? That would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much!

So you can clean an open the small fraction of the glass that actually opens? Or does your whole massive window sit on a hinge. Because if it's the former I think's not really a convincing argument for inward opening windows, since you'd have to clean the rest of the window anyway.

If I was building a house I'd consider not having opening windows, just have a ventilation system. Though there may be rules in the building code that says you can't do that. I couldn't get out my windows quickly if there was a fire because of security locks and double glazing... I should probably do something about that actually.

The ones I have seen, they can flip around so you can clean both sides from inside the house. The OP may need to find one that has been branz apprised, so it can be proven that it is suitable for NZ conditions. Wind zones are probably a biggy. Councils are very very picky and require all the paperwork.

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Reply # 908661 6-Oct-2013 02:59

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oxnsox:
Generally speaking we don't have snow on the ground for long periods in winter, and nor do we have extreme highs for long periods......
its all about being surrounded by a large body of water which keeps things temperate.

I have been visiting quite a number of places since I got here in august (late winter? early spring?)

Must say I have never ever been as cold as I have been here in New Zealand: You guys seem to think you are a lot closer to the equator than you actually are.

And thats coming from a norwegian that have experienced temperatures down to -45 degrees celsius and have lived in areas where -30 degrees was not uncommon in the winter.

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jarledb

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Reply # 908662 6-Oct-2013 03:04

To be somewhat on topic. This might be something to look at, pretty common where I come from:
http://www.hwindow.com/

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timmmay

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Reply # 908664 6-Oct-2013 06:34

jarledb:
oxnsox:
Generally speaking we don't have snow on the ground for long periods in winter, and nor do we have extreme highs for long periods......
its all about being surrounded by a large body of water which keeps things temperate.

I have been visiting quite a number of places since I got here in august (late winter? early spring?)

Must say I have never ever been as cold as I have been here in New Zealand: You guys seem to think you are a lot closer to the equator than you actually are.

And thats coming from a norwegian that have experienced temperatures down to -45 degrees celsius and have lived in areas where -30 degrees was not uncommon in the winter.

Exactly. Maybe there's no snow, but it regularly gets down to freezing point, and it's a windy country which increases heat loss.

My fiance's from England, she hated it here to start with. She lived in an average home, which had little insulation or heating, and was full of mold (which isn't average but isn't uncommon). She had to wear heaps of clothes, wrap up a lot, and she got sick more than home. Heating is per room, if people do it at all, it's not effective in poorly insulated homes.

Compare that to England where they insulate and double glaze their houses and have central heating to every room. You can't even compare it to properly cold countries where they might have double walled homes and triple glazing.

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timmmay

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Reply # 908665 6-Oct-2013 06:35

mattwnz: The ones I have seen, they can flip around so you can clean both sides from inside the house. The OP may need to find one that has been branz apprised, so it can be proven that it is suitable for NZ conditions. Wind zones are probably a biggy. Councils are very very picky and require all the paperwork.

The windows in my house are generally around 3.5 x 2m, in every room. You wouldn't want to flip the whole of one of those around...

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kiwigander

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Reply # 908704 6-Oct-2013 10:04

We've got Eurovision windows throughout our house. (URL in another poster's message). Excellent thermal performance; noticeably better than typical NZ non-thermally-broken aluminium-framed double glazed windows. No problems with approval by our district council 8 years ago.

One set of inward-opening French doors could not cope with our hurricane-force-wind-driven rain and was replaced by an outward-opening set. Otherwise the windows have handled horizontal rain and extreme wind well.

foobar

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Reply # 909435 7-Oct-2013 17:47

Hello!

mattwnz: The ones I have seen, they can flip around so you can clean both sides from inside the house. The OP may need to find one that has been branz apprised, so it can be proven that it is suitable for NZ conditions. Wind zones are probably a biggy. Councils are very very picky and require all the paperwork.

Yes, the Homerit windows are BRANZ appraised. They also told us that a couple of years back, when the first PVC windows appeared in New Zealand, they didn't perform well, since it wasn't the UV-resistent type of PVC. The modern windows now have the proper level of UV resistance even for "New Zealand's unique environment". :-)

Having grown up with these sorts of windows, I can tell you that they usually never leak. We had a window in my parent's house, which was pretty large and ended up letting a few drops through when strong wind pushed the rain against it. However, being in middle Europe, we also had external roll-down shutters, so during rain we just closed those. Since here we don't have those shutters, we didn't plan on having very huge windows anyway.

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Reply # 909484 7-Oct-2013 19:24

timmmay:
jarledb:
oxnsox:
Generally speaking we don't have snow on the ground for long periods in winter, and nor do we have extreme highs for long periods......
its all about being surrounded by a large body of water which keeps things temperate.

I have been visiting quite a number of places since I got here in august (late winter? early spring?)

Must say I have never ever been as cold as I have been here in New Zealand: You guys seem to think you are a lot closer to the equator than you actually are.

And thats coming from a norwegian that have experienced temperatures down to -45 degrees celsius and have lived in areas where -30 degrees was not uncommon in the winter.

Exactly. Maybe there's no snow, but it regularly gets down to freezing point, and it's a windy country which increases heat loss.

My fiance's from England, she hated it here to start with. She lived in an average home, which had little insulation or heating, and was full of mold (which isn't average but isn't uncommon). She had to wear heaps of clothes, wrap up a lot, and she got sick more than home. Heating is per room, if people do it at all, it's not effective in poorly insulated homes.

Compare that to England where they insulate and double glaze their houses and have central heating to every room. You can't even compare it to properly cold countries where they might have double walled homes and triple glazing.

Judging by some of the so called desirable crap being offered in the UK TV program "Location Location Location" double glazing etc must be an exception rather than the rule.

Regards,

Old3eyes

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Reply # 909489 7-Oct-2013 19:31

timmmay:
mattwnz: The ones I have seen, they can flip around so you can clean both sides from inside the house. The OP may need to find one that has been branz apprised, so it can be proven that it is suitable for NZ conditions. Wind zones are probably a biggy. Councils are very very picky and require all the paperwork.

The windows in my house are generally around 3.5 x 2m, in every room. You wouldn't want to flip the whole of one of those around...

Many windows in the UK tend and europe to be a lot smaller, as you lose a lot of heat out of windows, even double and triple glazed, compared to an insulated wall. Most window manufacturers do have a maximum size for a sash

timmmay

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Reply # 909524 7-Oct-2013 20:41

When we took a window from 2.5x2 down to 1x2 in the bathroom it was amazing how much darker the room was. Yes walls are much better insulation, but you have to consider livability too.

My fiance's house in England has a ranch slider in one room that takes up half the wall, double glazed and with good curtains of course, and central heating. The windows are generally smaller than NZ houses though. Makes sense.

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