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Parewanui
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  #1085612 9-Jul-2014 11:34
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@Phantom, when you mentioned the wood-burner + free wood that seems important because that's 40-60% of energy requirements covered for winter (4-6 months).  Also, with a wet-back, another way to heat water (over winter), whereas over summer you could use solar-thermal to heat water. I think you should consider off-grid, with a diesel generator for peak demand. There's a few electrical-businesses in NZ now offering kits so they can give you a pricing idea.  But first, do what Porboynz said... 'I suggest you get a power monitoring unit and start mapping out where your usage is and when it's being used as the first step in generating your own power, be it hydro or solar.'  I think hydro is a bonus if you can do it, and do solar-thermal, and PV as they are proven tech that works.  My neighbor is building a new house for his daughter and is installing both solar-thermal and PV. I was surprised about the PV cells price he got quoted from his electrician-supplier.  Looks like they are still dropping in price. But we'll see - he has promised to pass on the actual install price in 3 months time.   

PhantomNVD
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  #1085966 9-Jul-2014 19:31
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Quick update... I just got an off-grid quote for my 10kW/day at 50,000 for Solar, and $55k if I used the mini hydro in the mix(!)

Apparently $35k for the base hydro install, and another $20k for solar to supplement for winter needs.

When the turbine is $2000, the piping $800, plus around $3000 for a good regulator, and $2000 to cable... how the hell do they get to $35K???

So much for green.. Have to do it myself to make the numbers add up favourably I guess...

k1wi
484 posts

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  #1086162 10-Jul-2014 03:41
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PhantomNVD: When the turbine is $2000, the piping $800, plus around $3000 for a good regulator, and $2000 to cable... how the hell do they get to $35K???

So much for green.. Have to do it myself to make the numbers add up favourably I guess...
1. Weir?
2. Consent costs.
3. Labour costs.
4. Company overheads & equipment.
5. Company profit.

PhantomNVD
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  #1086177 10-Jul-2014 07:19
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k1wi:
PhantomNVD: When the turbine is $2000, the piping $800, plus around $3000 for a good regulator, and $2000 to cable... how the hell do they get to $35K???

So much for green.. Have to do it myself to make the numbers add up favourably I guess...
1. Weir?
2. Consent costs.
3. Labour costs.
4. Company overheads & equipment.
5. Company profit.


Fair nuff, but wier is already there, consent is minimal for a rural property, as there is a 'farmers' allowance for water use already existent, so I guess I was just raging at the company inflation of the costing... Sorry? :)

I realise they in it to make something too, but for over 50% of the cost it seems a bit steep?

How much did the 5kW solar this thread started on cost I wonder?

Porboynz

110 posts

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  #1086194 10-Jul-2014 08:38
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Last October the 3kW PV I started this thread about cost me just under $12k installed including a power monitoring unit I can access from the web. It's an Owl Intuition that uploads data to the cloud. The Enasolar inverter also has a web access as it runs it's own mini web server. The panels are on a concrete tile roof which is more expensive to fit, but prices have dropped again since then. Such is the burden of the early adopter, but I am not complaining, it's been great fun. Send me a PM if you want as look at the Enasolar inverter and I will send you a URL.

SumnerBoy
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  #1086215 10-Jul-2014 09:04
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I am getting a 3.12kW system installed next week. The all inclusive price was $10,500 which included the Ensolar inverter and 12x265kW panels. The only extra (I believe) is the meter changeover fee of $85. Was pretty happy with that price, but I am sure in 6 months it will be less again...

richms
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  #1086282 10-Jul-2014 10:09
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How many square meters is the 3.12kw system?




Richard rich.ms

SumnerBoy
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  #1086289 10-Jul-2014 10:49
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The panels are 1700x1000 and I am getting 12 - so just over 20sqm, plus a bit extra I guess for spacing between panels etc.

richms
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  #1086296 10-Jul-2014 10:59
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Interesting. I will have to get some more info before I decide how much of the shed I am going to get removed. That would probably fit after I take a 3m off one corner.




Richard rich.ms

PhantomNVD
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  #1086361 10-Jul-2014 12:15
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nutbugs: @PhantomNVD. A couple of comments about my experiences. (I probably should create a new thread about all this as someone suggested a while back - time is short and the todo list is long! It is on it though :))
I will dig out some more info and see what else I can share :)



Thread started http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=141&topicid=150067 and you're quoted in it :)

lets see the Hydro niche in GZ blossom :D

Porboynz

110 posts

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  #1086755 10-Jul-2014 21:23
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I have been thinking about solar PV generation and how to store surplus energy. Batteries are a very expensive option that make sense if the power grid is not available, but the initial cost and on-going maintenance and lifespan make for a very difficult ROI. My 3kW PV setup is grid connected so any surplus is exported to the grid. During the non winter months I was generating an average 14.3kWh per day and exporting about 7kWh per day or more. Meridian pay me $0.25 per kWh for the first 5kWh I export each day, this is 150 kWh per month which is $37.50 credit. The problem is that after that first 5kWh per day at $0.25/kWh they pay just $0.10/kWh which is no doubt very fair when compared to wholesale rates, but a far cry from $0.25/kWh.

In effect the grid acts like a battery as I can draw the power down later when the sun don’t shine using my sunshine hours credit to pay for it. But human nature being what it is, I resent exporting to the grid power at $0.10/kWh when they charge me up to $0.29/kWh for the power I import. A device that takes any excess export and heats my HWC therefore makes some sense. Following up on a website suggested by SumnerBoy I ordered a kit of parts from Robin Emley in the UK for his fabulous MkII PV Router. It took me a week to put it together, calibrate and test it, my first foray into the wonderful world of Arduino.


 

This clever device monitors the current direction at the meter and if it is exporting to the grid cunningly shunts power off to the HWC element until equilibrium is reached. I won’t go into the technical detail, read all about it here.     mk2pvrouter           

 

I hooked it up last weekend and then the latest weather bomb hit us and I have seen the worst output from my PV panels yet, less than 1kWh per day. Certainly not enough to export any surplus when my base load is 500W, but today there must have been a small break in the clouds because the PV Router recorded a maiden 0.067kWh diverted to my HWC element. Bring on the sunshine, it will be interesting to see what it can do. For optimal use I could leave it switched off for part of the month until I have reached the $0.25 cut-off of 150kWh in the Spring, Summer and Autumn months and probably leave it off in Winter. Brilliant.

SumnerBoy
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  #1086785 10-Jul-2014 22:19
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Awesome Porboynz! My solar is getting installed next week (as already mentioned) and as soon as it is in I intend to order one of these kits as well. Looking forward to hearing how yours works out. I will be sure to post my results on here as well.

SumnerBoy
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  #1086796 10-Jul-2014 22:22
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BTW - if you are prepared to get your hands dirty you could tweak the Arduino sketch so that it records the amount of power exported each month and only activate the dump load after you have exported 150kW...

PhantomNVD
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  #1086801 10-Jul-2014 22:33
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Having a quick gander at the linked webpage, I was shocked to stumble on this quote:

 Robin Emley: In many countries, users are charged when their surplus power flows into the grid, so a simple way of preventing this from happening can be a very worthwhile investment.


a) Is this indicative of the way we might head if Solar PV gets a wide enough uptake and
b) WHY would 'the grid' charge for freely provided power?

SumnerBoy
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  #1086802 10-Jul-2014 22:37
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I have always considered this a risk of installing solar. There is no guarantee our buyback rates will remain the same, and there is every likelihood they will decrease as more solar getting installed. That is why devices like the MK2 PV Router are so clever, and necessary, in my (and many others) opinions. Robin has just started a discussion on the Open Energy Monitor forums about enhancing the logic of the PV router so that you can dump energy to non-resistive loads - i.e. something like a dishwasher or washing machine. This is where things start to get more complicated but the tools are in place now so hopefully these clever chaps can come up with something even more useful.

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