3kW Grid Tied Solar PV: Watts and Warts.

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110 posts

Master Geek

#1155631 15-Oct-2014 19:32

mclean:
freemark: Plenty of people spend $15k on a new bathroom or kitchen without even thinking of "payback"

The payback from spending on a new bathroom or kitchen is that you get a new bathroom or kitchen. That's a real benefit for sure.

The only payback you might (or might not) get from solar generation is a financial one. The electricity at the socket is the same. Except maybe a feel-good factor.

Oh no, you set my guilt synapses sparking.

My name is Kevin and I am a Geekaholic, I confess I spent $12,000 on a new solar PV system when I should have renovated the kids bathroom. I feel really bad about my relapse now but with the groups support I believe I can change. Now, who has a link to the bathroom forum so I can get started on my new life?

I really do need to renovate the kids bathroom and I will be really grumpy if it sets me back anywhere near $12k, I'm thinking $5k maximum, what can go wrong?

Porboynz

110 posts

Master Geek

#1155647 15-Oct-2014 19:39

gchiu:
timmmay: $12K seems like a big investment to save $1200 per year.

I see a Nelson crowd offering a 3kW package for $7200. Doesn't say if it includes installation or GST though.

There are whispers about low grade panels dumped on the market, the Renesolar panels on my garage roof have the following backup:

The solar panels are the new Virtus Poly/Mono Crystalline Module 250 watt high quality panel. The frame is made of marine grade Aluminium and comes with a 25 year performance warranty underwritten by Chubb International Insurance.

Like everything, do your homework and remember the cheapest price is not always the best price.

bfginger

1228 posts

Uber Geek

#1155779 15-Oct-2014 23:38

SQLGeek:
bfginger: Is $17,000 for a 4kWp system really value for money?

It is when you have a $15,000 subsidy :-) This is an earthquake rebuild, my insurance policy included 15K for green tech (there has got to be some wins for not having a house for over 4 years).
3 phase power is what makes it so expensive, it’s over 300 square meters, so a single phase is not enough.

How much more would a 5kWp system be?

Make sure the plumbers lag the pipes and wrap the hot water cylinder. A polyester cylinder wrap won't go everywhere like fibreglass.

It may pay to have a setup that makes more of the hot water come from the panels and night rate. I think the immerSUN can have a timer set so it will use only the night rate and panels to heat the tank.

http://www.enasolar.co.nz/Products/immerSUN

Or you could just have a couple of cheap timers so the element is only on when the sun is bright and during the night rate period.

I don't know if the multiphase power would be a complication.

freemark

103 posts

Master Geek

#1155863 16-Oct-2014 08:33

Porboynz:
gchiu:
timmmay: $12K seems like a big investment to save $1200 per year.

I see a Nelson crowd offering a 3kW package for $7200. Doesn't say if it includes installation or GST though.

There are whispers about low grade panels dumped on the market, the Renesolar panels on my garage roof have the following backup:
The solar panels are the new Virtus Poly/Mono Crystalline Module 250 watt high quality panel. The frame is made of marine grade Aluminium and comes with a 25 year performance warranty underwritten by Chubb International Insurance.

Like everything, do your homework and remember the cheapest price is not always the best price.

Mmmmmmm, so are they Poly or Mono or Poly/Mono?
But yes, there are rumours about rebadged Modules out there. If the manufacturer (brand namer) has not kept up their payments (gone bust?) to Chubb or whoever their 3rd Party is where do you think you will be in 10-15 years when the units fail or output drops by 30%?

Not saying Renesolar aren't a good brand, but I note your installer are no longer using them, and had you ever heard of them before they were sold to you?

richms

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#1155966 16-Oct-2014 10:52

Porboynz:
I really do need to renovate the kids bathroom and I will be really grumpy if it sets me back anywhere near $12k, I'm thinking $5k maximum, what can go wrong?

You would have a new toilet installed and nothing else for that much by the time you add all the council hassles for bathroom renovations if you want to move things.

Richard rich.ms

timmmay

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#1155974 16-Oct-2014 11:06

Porboynz: I really do need to renovate the kids bathroom and I will be really grumpy if it sets me back anywhere near $12k, I'm thinking $5k maximum, what can go wrong?

Waaay off topic here, but I spent around $40K to completely strip and replace everything in my bathroom, including tiles, underfloor heating, new mains pressure hot water including moving the tank to the ceiling, replumbing to suit the new cylinder, attic stairs, good quality fittings without going crazy (well except for the $400 40cm rain head which TBH I rarely use), fully finished with a good warranty.

Porboynz

110 posts

Master Geek

#1156371 16-Oct-2014 21:09

Mmmmmmm, so are they Poly or Mono or Poly/Mono?
But yes, there are rumours about rebadged Modules out there. If the manufacturer (brand namer) has not kept up their payments (gone bust?) to Chubb or whoever their 3rd Party is where do you think you will be in 10-15 years when the units fail or output drops by 30%?

Not saying Renesolar aren't a good brand, but I note your installer are no longer using them, and had you ever heard of them before they were sold to you?

I have a sneaking suspicion Freemark might just be in the solar panel business. If so perfectly placed to find out what happens if your solar panel manufacturer goes bust, what happens to your 25 year warranty. My understanding of underwriters is you pay a lump sum payment up front to cover the panel for the term of the warranty so it does not matter if they stop paying after 10 years or whatever. The remaining risk is what happens if the underwriter goes bust (having paid out all its profits to failing solar panel owners

.

My panels are Renesolar Virtus II polycrystalline construction (monocrystalline and multicrystalline combo deal) and they are made in China. The same panels are fitted to the top of the Auckland Museum, so I am in auspicious company. Would I like to have Mitsubishi Made in Japan panels instead of Renesolar Made in China or Hyundai Made in Korea panels? Sure I would, but at the time they checked out OK and a lot of installers are using them, but not my installer. Does he know something that caused him to change suppliers or did he just get a better deal from Mitsubishi?

My grandparents regarded Made in Japan as cheap and nasty and I once regarded Hyundai cars as rubbish. Now Japanese made is regarded the same as German made and Hyundai cars are rapidly getting the same reputation, as is Samsung and LG. It will be interesting where China ends up, there is no doubt they turn out a lot of junk but people must be buying it right? The fact that a lot of name brands manufacture in China is the clue I think, they follow the cheap labour and inevitably the overall quality improves then the labour market gets expensive and the big manufacturers move to the next cheap labour market. Just my opinion.

Back to the solar situation, now winter is over its time to change back to the low user plan with Meridian, feels great.

freemark

103 posts

Master Geek

#1156520 17-Oct-2014 08:18

You'd be right, I am in the industry - along with a few cowboys :)
Renesolar is a good brand however, and looks like you have a great system but my other questions were valid.
PV is a commodity, and we get offered different deals all the time, but it's good to support local, and like everything I guess you get what you pay for. Happy harvesting!!

richms

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#1156531 17-Oct-2014 08:46

freemark: You'd be right, I am in the industry - along with a few cowboys :)
Renesolar is a good brand however, and looks like you have a great system but my other questions were valid.
PV is a commodity, and we get offered different deals all the time, but it's good to support local, and like everything I guess you get what you pay for. Happy harvesting!!

Why is it good to support local?

Richard rich.ms

freemark

103 posts

Master Geek

#1156559 17-Oct-2014 09:18

richms:
freemark: You'd be right, I am in the industry - along with a few cowboys :)
Renesolar is a good brand however, and looks like you have a great system but my other questions were valid.
PV is a commodity, and we get offered different deals all the time, but it's good to support local, and like everything I guess you get what you pay for. Happy harvesting!!

Why is it good to support local?

Local means local jobs, local tax paid, increases in locally owned IP etc. We always give people the choice, and sometimes there is a price premium, but I can't see any disadvantages..can you?

SepticSceptic

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#1156997 17-Oct-2014 17:57

Porboynz:

Back to the solar situation, now winter is over its time to change back to the low user plan with Meridian, feels great.

Dang, why didn't I think of this before.!! Changing to low-user plan during summer.

Over the course of a year, I'm right on the cusp between standard user and low user, and wasn't worth the effort to change for minimal, if any, gain. Higher usage in winter - the hot water needs to heat from a water tank, so takes a bit of wattage to heat from 5deg C, as opposed to summer, when the tank level tends to be lower, and the water is at a higher ambient, taking less wattage to heat.

And only $18 to change. Get one free change per year. ( Energy Online).

My thoughts are no longer my own and is probably representative of our media-controlled government

wellygary

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#1164476 29-Oct-2014 16:46

As an aside , it looks like Meridian is about to change (gut) its feed in tariffs.- again

Comments from their AGM today, Binns is Meridian CEO Mark Binns,

"Binns warned also that Meridian is about to get more commercially hard-nosed about its solar power generation offering, saying the company has 70 percent of the New Zealand residential solar market.

"As we move forward we have to balance our commitment to support solar customers in a way that is also commercially sustainable for Meridian. We will be reviewing our tariffs in this segment over the coming year to reflect this aim."

SumnerBoy

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#1164478 29-Oct-2014 16:47

That does not sound promising at all!

richms

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#1164493 29-Oct-2014 16:59

Your free ride may be over soon.. Hope you didnt expect it to go on forever when working out if solar was a sustainable investment.

Richard rich.ms

SumnerBoy

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#1164496 29-Oct-2014 17:02

Would hardly call it a free ride. But yes I did consider it, along with inevitable electricity price increases...I am very confident in the long run it will be a worthwhile investment (by long term I mean > 10 years).

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