Ecobulbs as replacements for Halogen down lights

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#968718 17-Jan-2014 10:19

Why would people still use CFL's? I know they save power but the daner from them seems far greater.

Mercury vapour. US authorities don’t recommend use in children’s rooms or over carpeted areas because of toxic hazard
Damage to houses. Despite NZ government assurances, the latest scientific tests in the US prove the mercury in one broken bulb can irreparably contaminate a carpet. In the US insurance companies are refusing to cover the cost of replacing carpets
Fire risk. It is normal for CFL bulbs to physically burn up at the end of their natural life. Although rare, in some cases this has led to house fires
Toxic smoke. The burnt plastic and gases emitted when lights burn out are carcinogenic
Lifespan. Although many bulbs claim 6,000 hours (five years’ use) or greater, this is based on ideal laboratory conditions. Some bulbs have died within 12 months in household use
RF Interference. Household CFLs are widely known to cause interference to wireless networks, electronic appliances, hot water cylinders and cordless phones
Power disruptions. NZ Government briefing papers disclose major concerns that CFLs could cause regular widespread power outages because of a peculiar side-effect known as harmonic distortion
Cost of disposal. Some US states now require homeowners to drive old CFL bulbs to a special recycling centre to avoid contaminating the environment

source

I have no idea about whether the site is reputable but a quick google search shows the points are pretty widespread

Scientificamerican

and even from the epa on how to clean them up, surely this isn't just some CT or should I get my tin foil hat out?

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graemeh

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#968775 17-Jan-2014 11:29

I'm trialling a couple of LED replacements for my Halogens.

The ones I got are: https://www.energyavenue.com/LED-Light-Bulbs/MR16-LED-Lamps/SMR165083036/Soraa-00097-Premium-LED-MR16-Light-Bulb-50-Watt-Equal-Flood

So far they appear to be slightly brighter than the LED they replaced and they come on at full brightness instantly.

The heatsink does get hot but not as hot as the Halogen. The heat in front of the bulb is much less than the halogen.

The thing I liked about these is they are specifically marketed as halogen replacements and they state that they will work with "old" wire wound transformers.

They are also a reasonable looking bulb with just a single light source so not as ugly as most of the LEDs.

mattwnz

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#968788 17-Jan-2014 11:48

BlueShift:
robjg63: Ecobulb seems to be a brand of Energy Mad - its a kiwi company.
They mention LED lights - 'coming soon' - but I seem to recall seeing that on their site for a while now.

Energy Mad, that's the doorknockers! I knew there was insanity and electricity in the name :-) Their doorknocker specificly denigrated LED bulbs, so maybe not coming all that soon...

Then close the door. LEDs are far superior to CFLs, which are now old technology. It is a bit like LED backlit TVs, vs old CFL backlit ones, you wouldn't buy a CFL backlit one instead of an LED backlit on these days. Philips LED B22 and E27 bulbs arenonly about 20 bucks each. Briscoe also sell Panasonic ones, and they sometimes have 40 percent off them when they do their sales rotations. Also suggest buying just standard bulbs to replace existing ones, and not LEDs where you have to also replace the fitting when the bulb dies, which are more expensive, and availability and getting it to match will be difficult when it needs replacing, plus you may need to get am electrician in to replace the fitting. These days there is no need to buy LEDs where the bulb is integrated in to the fitting.

kiwigander

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#968861 17-Jan-2014 13:10

A few points:

1. I'm automatically suspicious of anyone knocking on my door trying to sell me something.

2. Ecobulbs rate not-too-badly according to Consumer NZ. Unlike some posters here I've found they reach full brightness quickly. I have found, though, that they will die after a few thousand hours: still well after the payback point but their longevity may not be so good as advertised.

3. There are enough CFLs and LEDs with standard electrical connections (Edison screw, mini-Edison screw, bayonet cap, MR16, GU10); beware any lamp that can't be replaced without replacing its housing and/or socket.

4. I've had a few LEDs die well before their rated lifespan too.

5. uncensored.co.nz should not be considered a reliable source, and just because there is bad news about CFLs all over the Internet does not make them inherently bad.

6. That being said, there are a lot of poor quality CFLs on the market.

7. MR16-base LEDs are pin-for-pin replacements for halogens but they do not operate properly off halogen power supplies. Poster graemeh: they will work fine off old-fashioned magnetic transformers but not off the switchmode power supplies that are almost universally used in halogen installations. On the other hand, replacing the power supply should not be too big a drama.

8. Make sure you listen to, as well as looking at, any new lamp you're considering. I've got a couple of 10 W LED's in a vanity that produce an awful whine from their ventilating fans. In a dining room or lounge they would drive you nuts.

X. I've been using CFLs for over fifteen years, LEDs for eight. IMHO LEDs are the future but the future isn't entirely here yet.

timmmay

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#968867 17-Jan-2014 13:18

General LED lighting topic here. If anyone has any interesting/good value new general bulbs please post on that thread.

mattwnz

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#968896 17-Jan-2014 14:06

I installed osram CFLs in my house 15 years ago, they were about 20 bucks each then. I have some that are still going, but the majority have died from about y years after installation. The ones remain have lost a lot of their light intensity. I purchased some ecobulb ones some time ago, and quite a few of them buzzed and they tended to die earlier than the osram ones. Still have a few that are going. I currently have a trial of Philips and Panasonic LED bulbs, and the apart from the old osram and ecobulbs Clfs, the rest are Philips CFLs which I have found perform very well. The LEDs are just far superior in terms in of light quality and instant on. Don't buy the cheap Chinese brand LEDs, as many die early and they lose their light intensity. Consumer have done a test on some now.

jeffnz

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#968912 17-Jan-2014 14:16

kiwigander:

5. uncensored.co.nz should not be considered a reliable source, and just because there is bad news about CFLs all over the Internet does not make them inherently bad.

I did say I was unsure of them. So are you saying they are safe given the Mercury in them?? the simple fact they have this and should be destroyed carefully would surely point to them being unsafe. Is the information on the EPA site wrong as well, just curious I don't have an axe to grind

I'm not a greenie just think i this day and age these type of bulbs should be given second thoughts especially with the LED's on the market.

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kiwigander

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#968951 17-Jan-2014 14:48

Agreed - you did not imply that the uncensored link was scientific fact.

I do think CFLs are safe. As far as I know all fluorescent lamps use mercury, and they've been in use for many decades safely.

I would not accuse the EPA of posting wrong information. In some instances I am just a bit skeptical of their advice. For example, with respect to mercury they seem to be advising that we severely limit our intake of fish (especially those fish high up the food chain) at the same time as advocates of healthier diets want us to increase our intake of fish. I wonder whether their advice is excessively conservative because of the USA legal system.

I do agree with you that CFLs are going to give way to LEDs in the medium term.

jeffnz

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#968954 17-Jan-2014 14:52

kiwigander: Agreed - you did not imply that the uncensored link was scientific fact.

I do think CFLs are safe. As far as I know all fluorescent lamps use mercury, and they've been in use for many decades safely.

I would not accuse the EPA of posting wrong information. In some instances I am just a bit skeptical of their advice. For example, with respect to mercury they seem to be advising that we severely limit our intake of fish (especially those fish high up the food chain) at the same time as advocates of healthier diets want us to increase our intake of fish. I wonder whether their advice is excessively conservative because of the USA legal system.

I do agree with you that CFLs are going to give way to LEDs in the medium term.

thanks clarifies things

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#968957 17-Jan-2014 14:56

I know someone at Energy Mad so have made them aware of this thread. Hopefully they will pop up here at some stage. I know they do have LED's in their future plans. I have Ecobulb CFL halogen replaements in our kitchen which have been pretty good.

Cheers, Matt.

My views (except when I am looking out their windows) are not those of my employer.

mattwnz

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#968966 17-Jan-2014 15:21

In the US they do now have a new style of LED bulb, which is like a disk, and fits into a standard fitting. SUpposidly they are cheaper to make as they dont' require a large heat sink. CFLs over there are also really cheap, and they have now banned now incandescent bulbs, which they were going to do in NZ, but for some reason that was reversed. I would however expect CFLs to be a thing of the past in a few years, as the price of LEDs comes down. I wouldn't pay over $2-4 per bulb for a CFL now, which is what you can get the philips ones for on special, and they have a reasonable life too.

Skolink

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#968991 17-Jan-2014 16:22

mruane: Hi

Has anyone embarked on replacing halogen down lights with Ecobulbs. I was approached by a company wanting to assess my home to replace all of the halogen down lights with these Ecobulbs (which look like twisted fluorescent lamps) but I am not sure about these lights. They seem to take quite a while to raise themselves to full brightness and that just became a pain when using regular fluorescent lamps i.e. to replace regular light bulbs. Plus I am not sure they last as long as the company claims (i.e. www.energymad.com)

I wondered if anyone else has gone down this path and what your experiences where.

Cheers Mike

Did they refer to it as the "Tauranga Project"? I got phoned about that a year or so ago (in Christchurch), but I already had ecobulb downlights.
I would strongly recommend installing LED downlight fittings rather than Ecobulb downlights.
The Ecobulb CFL bulbs don't last as long as they aught, and when you try to replace them they break off rather than disengage from the twist-lock.
When EQC replaced our ceilings I got rid of the downlights.

Unless you are on a tight budget, get some LED fittings with at least 600lumen output.
Note:
35W halogen ~= 500lumen
50W halogen ~= 800 lumen

Don't get the GU10 or MR16 LED replacement 'bulbs', they are all far too dim, despite claiming to be a halogen replacement. Ecobulbs would be better then those.

mattwnz

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#968995 17-Jan-2014 16:36

Skolink:
mruane: Hi

Has anyone embarked on replacing halogen down lights with Ecobulbs. I was approached by a company wanting to assess my home to replace all of the halogen down lights with these Ecobulbs (which look like twisted fluorescent lamps) but I am not sure about these lights. They seem to take quite a while to raise themselves to full brightness and that just became a pain when using regular fluorescent lamps i.e. to replace regular light bulbs. Plus I am not sure they last as long as the company claims (i.e. www.energymad.com)

I wondered if anyone else has gone down this path and what your experiences where.

Cheers Mike

Did they refer to it as the "Tauranga Project"? I got phoned about that a year or so ago (in Christchurch), but I already had ecobulb downlights.
I would strongly recommend installing LED downlight fittings rather than Ecobulb downlights.
The Ecobulb CFL bulbs don't last as long as they aught, and when you try to replace them they break off rather than disengage from the twist-lock.
When EQC replaced our ceilings I got rid of the downlights.

Unless you are on a tight budget, get some LED fittings with at least 600lumen output.
Note:
35W halogen ~= 500lumen
50W halogen ~= 800 lumen

Don't get the GU10 or MR16 LED replacement 'bulbs', they are all far too dim, despite claiming to be a halogen replacement. Ecobulbs would be better then those.

Just wondering what you replaced your downlights with? Pendants, buttons? You can now get IC downlights which don't have the same problems with creating big uninsulated areas in the ceiling, and some of these integrated LED/fittings are also IC, but some aren't. I wouldn't get the ones which aren't, or are only CA. IC is the way to go in terms of insualtion. You can also get an IC downlighter fitting for B22 and E27 CFL and LED bulbs, and I have checked with the manufacturer to make sure that the philips LEDs will be ok in them, and you are talking well under the $100 for the fitting + bulb.

Niel

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#969021 17-Jan-2014 17:24

I have about 10 EcoBulbs (or might be a different brand) that I got from Field Days about 4-6 years ago and never used. Free if you want. Will post in Offers & Wanted sometime if no one contacts me directly. Will check the details later. They are CCFL lamps, dedicated fittings, pretty sure it is EcoBulb and warm/neutral white, but will update post later. I'm not going to use them because the hole size required is smaller than the holes already in my new house, and I have found a good quality dedicated LED fitting that fits in the non-standard hole size in my ceiling.

You can never have enough Volvos!

richrdh18

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#969329 18-Jan-2014 12:42

Led's are the way to go. Yes they are more expensive but to reduce the huge one off cost, I purchased a couple each week and after a few months, the whole house is done. I went for the Philips warm white bulbs as a replacement for R80 down lights bulbs. I think we are saving approx. $40 per month on our power bill now, so these would have paid themselves off in under a year.

Now I don't mind if the kids leave the lights on

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