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SBQ

SBQ
91 posts

Master Geek


  #1994635 12-Apr-2018 09:17
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I would be interested to know if any Flick customers in Christchurch have noticed lower than usual pricing (particularly those on a day & night rate?) since we've been having lots of rain all over NZ. ???

In next months time, it would be interesting to see how much higher Flick prices are for Chch residents when Flick passes on the Orion 'winter' sur-charge.

B


heapsort
197 posts

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  #1994766 12-Apr-2018 12:18
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I'm with Flick in Christchurch, because I like the pricing model on principle so I don't mind if they are not exactly among the cheapest for our usage patterns.

 

 

 

But out of curiosity, I recently downloaded a recent week of usage data (during rather low spot prices) and compared to the main providers - assuming each had the same weekday rate duration, 7am to 9pm.

 

 

 

From memory my Flick bill that week was around $30 and others (Genesis, Meridian) were at least 5% higher.

 

 

 

But the saving really came from weekday daytime rates, not overnight or weekends. As most of our electricity use is overnight and weekends, we saw less saving with Flick at recent low spot price conditions than other households might.

 

 

 

The winter surcharge will barely effect my bills, being 7-10am and 5-7pm weekdays as we already have low usage in those times.


Hammerer
2209 posts

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  #1994775 12-Apr-2018 12:26
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heapsort:

 

But the saving really came from weekday daytime rates, not overnight or weekends. As most of our electricity use is overnight and weekends, we saw less saving with Flick at recent low spot price conditions than other households might.

 

 

That conclusion is interesting for me because we normally have people home all day on every day of the week. I've just moved to Flick so I will be analysing the data to see if that is true for my household.


heapsort
197 posts

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  #1994786 12-Apr-2018 12:43
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Hammerer:

 

heapsort:

 

But the saving really came from weekday daytime rates, not overnight or weekends. As most of our electricity use is overnight and weekends, we saw less saving with Flick at recent low spot price conditions than other households might.

 

 

That conclusion is interesting for me because we normally have people home all day on every day of the week. I've just moved to Flick so I will be analysing the data to see if that is true for my household.

 

 

 

 

To elaborate a bit, typical low user fixed plans with day and night rates here seem to be on the order (give or take a few cents) of 30 c/kWh weekday daytime and 10 c/kWh nights/weekends. My recent prices during low spot prices were consistently under 20 c/kWh weekday daytime but barely under 10c/kWh overnight and weekends.

 

 

 

So yeah, it seems the fixed rate alternatives largely load most of their profit margin into their daytime rates perhaps.


SBQ

SBQ
91 posts

Master Geek


  #1994819 12-Apr-2018 13:16
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heapsort:

 

Hammerer:

 

heapsort:

 

But the saving really came from weekday daytime rates, not overnight or weekends. As most of our electricity use is overnight and weekends, we saw less saving with Flick at recent low spot price conditions than other households might.

 

 

That conclusion is interesting for me because we normally have people home all day on every day of the week. I've just moved to Flick so I will be analysing the data to see if that is true for my household.

 

 

 

 

To elaborate a bit, typical low user fixed plans with day and night rates here seem to be on the order (give or take a few cents) of 30 c/kWh weekday daytime and 10 c/kWh nights/weekends. My recent prices during low spot prices were consistently under 20 c/kWh weekday daytime but barely under 10c/kWh overnight and weekends.

 

 

 

So yeah, it seems the fixed rate alternatives largely load most of their profit margin into their daytime rates perhaps.

 



 

My March Genesis bill shows: 12.1600 c/unit for night rate & 29.2700 c/unit during day. This is ex-GST but I also get a 12.5% prompt payment discount. This is with a line charge rate of 33.33c/day. I believe these prices are comparable to what you're paying in Flick now. Genesis honors the same weekend low rate for Chch residents as they base it on the Orion network hours. The difference is with Genesis, you KNOW what price you're paying at and it's the SAME rate throughout the year (they absorb the Orion winter sur-charge rate vs Flick you're stung with it during peak hours).

What I didn't like about Flick last winter was we experienced low hydro storage levels and spot prices were through the roof! Never again I want to see $10/kW/hr spikes.


heapsort
197 posts

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  #1994857 12-Apr-2018 13:50
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SBQ:

 

My March Genesis bill shows: 12.1600 c/unit for night rate & 29.2700 c/unit during day. This is ex-GST but I also get a 12.5% prompt payment discount. This is with a line charge rate of 33.33c/day. I believe these prices are comparable to what you're paying in Flick now. Genesis honors the same weekend low rate for Chch residents as they base it on the Orion network hours. The difference is with Genesis, you KNOW what price you're paying at and it's the SAME rate throughout the year (they absorb the Orion winter sur-charge rate vs Flick you're stung with it during peak hours).

What I didn't like about Flick last winter was we experienced low hydro storage levels and spot prices were through the roof! Never again I want to see $10/kW/hr spikes.

 

 

 

 

Your night rates is comparable, and your weekday rate is about 20 to 50% higher, than my recent Flick rates. Of course, there will be times of year your plan is cheaper. For anyone who wants to  know the exact rate they will pay and have it the same all year, Flick is not right for them. I prefer the exposure to spot prices and incentive to reduce my contribution to peak demand.

 

The spikes were high last winter, but I didn't see much impact from them over a longer perspective. My average weekly bill was around $30 last year and only a few were more than twice that; highest week was $80. Outlook for this winter is better, hydro lake levels are fairly good.


SBQ

SBQ
91 posts

Master Geek


  #1994900 12-Apr-2018 14:29
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heapsort:

 

SBQ:

 

My March Genesis bill shows: 12.1600 c/unit for night rate & 29.2700 c/unit during day. This is ex-GST but I also get a 12.5% prompt payment discount. This is with a line charge rate of 33.33c/day. I believe these prices are comparable to what you're paying in Flick now. Genesis honors the same weekend low rate for Chch residents as they base it on the Orion network hours. The difference is with Genesis, you KNOW what price you're paying at and it's the SAME rate throughout the year (they absorb the Orion winter sur-charge rate vs Flick you're stung with it during peak hours).

What I didn't like about Flick last winter was we experienced low hydro storage levels and spot prices were through the roof! Never again I want to see $10/kW/hr spikes.

 

 

 

 

Your night rates is comparable, and your weekday rate is about 20 to 50% higher, than my recent Flick rates. Of course, there will be times of year your plan is cheaper. For anyone who wants to  know the exact rate they will pay and have it the same all year, Flick is not right for them. I prefer the exposure to spot prices and incentive to reduce my contribution to peak demand.

 

The spikes were high last winter, but I didn't see much impact from them over a longer perspective. My average weekly bill was around $30 last year and only a few were more than twice that; highest week was $80. Outlook for this winter is better, hydro lake levels are fairly good.

 

 

Back in January when I was with Flick, my daytime rate was consistently higher than the Genesis fixed rate by a huge margin. Over the summer months I estimated around 40 - 50% more as the avg monthly bill with Flick was $150. When I compared that to the previous year with Genesis, a summer month $100. This has been confirmed in my Feb and March Gensis billing which was under $100. No real change in usage in the house. The problem I found with Flick's spot price was during times when you need to cook (ie 5pm), their rates were consistently higher than the Genesis fixed price rate. Yet they may be a few cents less during hours where you least likely to use, it's really hard to shift your use to those hours. Ie start cooking meals at 7pm (not ideal with children in the house). The killer is in the morning from 7AM - 9PM - you simply just can't work around these hours when you need to get breakfast done and get kids to school. Then when the Orion sur-charge kicks in from May 1 to end of Aug, there's simply no way we could save with Flick. The fact about supply & demand is, if you want to save with Flick, you've basically got to go against the typical household user. Don't cook meals, wash laundry, run dishwasher, have showers, at times with most other people do.


pogo
84 posts

Master Geek


  #1994909 12-Apr-2018 14:50
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Is the Genesis night rate for all power consumed, or just for the "second meter" attached to hot water?

jpwise
577 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1994912 12-Apr-2018 14:57
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SBQ:

 

Yet they may be a few cents less during hours where you least likely to use, it's really hard to shift your use to those hours. Ie start cooking meals at 7pm (not ideal with children in the house). The killer is in the morning from 7AM - 9PM - you simply just can't work around these hours when you need to get breakfast done and get kids to school. 

 

The usage patterns vs high load times are always going to be an issue - although if you're on gas cooking/heating it's easier since the gas rates are still constant. Just a shame Flick hasn't come up with any decent contracts to bundle the gas & spot rates together for even more discount. 





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robertsona
110 posts

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  #1994913 12-Apr-2018 15:00
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SBQ:

 

heapsort:

 

SBQ:

 

My March Genesis bill shows: 12.1600 c/unit for night rate & 29.2700 c/unit during day. This is ex-GST but I also get a 12.5% prompt payment discount. This is with a line charge rate of 33.33c/day. I believe these prices are comparable to what you're paying in Flick now. Genesis honors the same weekend low rate for Chch residents as they base it on the Orion network hours. The difference is with Genesis, you KNOW what price you're paying at and it's the SAME rate throughout the year (they absorb the Orion winter sur-charge rate vs Flick you're stung with it during peak hours).

What I didn't like about Flick last winter was we experienced low hydro storage levels and spot prices were through the roof! Never again I want to see $10/kW/hr spikes.

 

 

 

 

Your night rates is comparable, and your weekday rate is about 20 to 50% higher, than my recent Flick rates. Of course, there will be times of year your plan is cheaper. For anyone who wants to  know the exact rate they will pay and have it the same all year, Flick is not right for them. I prefer the exposure to spot prices and incentive to reduce my contribution to peak demand.

 

The spikes were high last winter, but I didn't see much impact from them over a longer perspective. My average weekly bill was around $30 last year and only a few were more than twice that; highest week was $80. Outlook for this winter is better, hydro lake levels are fairly good.

 

 

Back in January when I was with Flick, my daytime rate was consistently higher than the Genesis fixed rate by a huge margin. Over the summer months I estimated around 40 - 50% more as the avg monthly bill with Flick was $150. When I compared that to the previous year with Genesis, a summer month $100. This has been confirmed in my Feb and March Gensis billing which was under $100. No real change in usage in the house. The problem I found with Flick's spot price was during times when you need to cook (ie 5pm), their rates were consistently higher than the Genesis fixed price rate. Yet they may be a few cents less during hours where you least likely to use, it's really hard to shift your use to those hours. Ie start cooking meals at 7pm (not ideal with children in the house). The killer is in the morning from 7AM - 9PM - you simply just can't work around these hours when you need to get breakfast done and get kids to school. Then when the Orion sur-charge kicks in from May 1 to end of Aug, there's simply no way we could save with Flick. The fact about supply & demand is, if you want to save with Flick, you've basically got to go against the typical household user. Don't cook meals, wash laundry, run dishwasher, have showers, at times with most other people do.

 

 

Play the long game...

 

We're on Flick in ChCh, and I feel we do get disadvantaged by the local lines charging regime. The winter peak charges and the very high spot prices over the (dry) winter last year meant we were hammered - our worst week was $190. However, for the overall 2017 calendar year, we still saved 7% to what we would have paid with Genesis (our previous supplier) without any panic measures - we pretty much still cooked, did laundry, kept warm as we would always have.

 

Recently I did a spreadsheet exercise where I took our entire 2017 usage data (every 1/2 hr for the year) and applied to each of the last 10 years, using the spot price records for those years. 2008 was a disastrous year, but otherwise we would have saved 10-16% every year compared to Genesis and Meridian fixed tariffs (inc. prompt payment discounts) for those years. 

 

I've long given up paying close attention to live spot prices, and I especially don't worry or react to the spikes - it's when the price hit's the big lows, that I get excited. 

 

However, talk to me about Orion's charging and I'll start moaning.

 

 


michaelmurfy
/dev/null
9562 posts

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  #1994929 12-Apr-2018 15:43
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I just had a doorknocker from Meridian - offered me the following:

 

33c daily charge.
23c/unit (after GST) fixed for 3 years and
12% Prompt Payment discount.
No contract.

 

I may need to look over my figures but this is quite a good deal.





Aredwood
3885 posts

Uber Geek


  #1994951 12-Apr-2018 15:58

look up the lines company fees for your area. And calculate an equivalent spot price for that rate.





Amosnz
503 posts

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  #1994972 12-Apr-2018 16:18
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michaelmurfy:

 

I just had a doorknocker from Meridian - offered me the following:

 

33c daily charge.
23c/unit (after GST) fixed for 3 years and
12% Prompt Payment discount.
No contract.

 

I may need to look over my figures but this is quite a good deal.

 

 

That almost seems like a low user daily rate paired with a high user unit rate, in which case should be quite competitive.





Speedtest


Hammerer
2209 posts

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  #2003443 27-Apr-2018 12:25
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SBQ:

 

Back in January when I was with Flick, my daytime rate was consistently higher than the Genesis fixed rate by a huge margin. Over the summer months I estimated around 40 - 50% more as the avg monthly bill with Flick was $150. When I compared that to the previous year with Genesis, a summer month $100. This has been confirmed in my Feb and March Genesis billing which was under $100. No real change in usage in the house.

 

I notice that many people are concerned about high winter rates but I'd expect summer rates to be more of an issue in the long term given the much higher risk of low lake levels. That cost is partly balanced by a lower impact in warmer wather because we can go without heating, have less showers and eat more cold dinners at that time of the year.

 

Another reason for us to join Flick is that we are somewhat insulated from high summer rates due to solar water heating. This should improve our savings in the summer months and make Flick a better financial proposition compared with households without solar systems. We also have our collectors at a low angle (15 degree roof) so they collect a lot more heat in the summer. We use little or no electricity for water heating for about 6 months between September and March.


tdgeek
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  #2003461 27-Apr-2018 12:59
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Hammerer:

 

We use little or no electricity for water heating for about 6 months between September and March.

 

 

Same, loving it!


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