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SBQ

91 posts

Master Geek


  #2426136 24-Feb-2020 08:21
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heapsort:

 

SBQ:

 

Let's look at Flick's pricing now in Christchurch:

Both FIXIE and EARNIE plans have kWh rates much higher than Genesis. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see the price difference. Off-peak 12.13c/kWH  Peak 29.20c/kWH  (Low-User rates).

 

 

Again, you are not exactly comparing equivalent plans there. Flick's Earner plan (which is rather new, and not one I'd use personally) has built-in rewards so a direct comparison is out. For its Fixie plan, Flick states "no fixed-term contracts or exit fees" but for some reason you only quoted Genesis prices for a plan with a "12-month fixed-term plan" and "early termination charge of $150.00"

 

If we instead compare Fixie to the Genesis low-user plan with no fixed term, Genesis' peak rate per kWh is 21% higher than Flick. So even if one is only concerned about price - and I've mentioned before I have moral qualms about being a direct customer of a large gentailer, and Genesis in particular - the matter really is nowhere near as clear as you claim.

 

Edit to add: another benefit to consider - while Flick Fixie does not lock in the customer, it does lock in the price. I'm currently paying less on Fixie than the prices in the PDF you linked, and I will be until August. By then, I may decide to switch to Freestyle.

 

 

The early termination fee is negated by the $100 sign up credit. But you're missing the point. What would encourage existing Genesis customer to switch over to Flick? Please point out the 21% price difference because i'm seeing Fixie plan as 16.10c on the off peak and 29.612c on the peak rate. Oh, and you seem to missed their 10% prompt payment discount. This makes it to 10.917c with Genesis on the low user pricing which is considerably less.

The rewards in Flick's Earnie plan is a joke. They're complicating savings by adding 2L for every $100 you spend, what if you fuel up at NPD or have existing vouchers like at Pak N Save (which such offers can't be combined?). I would say for most people, they understand what a 10% payment discount is, that's pretty normal. But trying to sugar coat things with 2 hours of power here or there won't make most customers to leave. I may be wrong. I do see other retailers sending their marketing team knocking on my doors quite often and the reality is, they're trying to bait you over on a wee price difference. They quote the non-discounted rate of Genesis, or have other deceptive tricks to win you over. The issue for myself, i've been through the Flick experience before... no more having to check spot rate powers.. for which a fixed rate plan suits the household best (not every 30 minutes the price changes). But what's clear, the Fixie plan is a lot more than 10.917 - can you blame me or others in Christchurch?


192 posts

Master Geek

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  #2426141 24-Feb-2020 08:55
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SBQ:

 

The early termination fee is negated by the $100 sign up credit. But you're missing the point. What would encourage existing Genesis customer to switch over to Flick? Please point out the 21% price difference because i'm seeing Fixie plan as 16.10c on the off peak and 29.612c on the peak rate. Oh, and you seem to missed their 10% prompt payment discount. This makes it to 10.917c with Genesis on the low user pricing which is considerably less.

 

As far as I can see reading the Genesis website, you've diverged even further in comparing non-equivalent plans with this latest reply. Genesis advertises the $100 sign up credit (which would not entire negate the early termination fee) is a "dual fuel bonus credit" and the e-Saver plan prompt payment discount is 10% only for dual fuel customers. (It's 5% without dual fuel). So you are comparing Flick, which only sells electricity, so particular benefits of a Genesis plan that are only available to people who will also purchase gas.

 

Re the note about a rate being 21% higher: I re-checked and it is 19%. With no fixed term, the Genesis low-user peak rate is 35.33 c/kWh. That is 19% higher than 29.612 c/kWh.

 

I have no interest in the Earnie plan personally, and I have no knowledge of Flick "sending their marketing team knocking on ... doors" so I only skim-read your paragraph about those issues.

 

And finally, Flick still offer their original product now called Freestyle. Spot prices have reduced from highs in past years to levels where Flick Freestyle would be cheaper in Christchurch than any standard peak/off-peak plan with fixed rates from any retailer. I may switch back to that later this year, fully aware of the risk of high spot prices.


SBQ

91 posts

Master Geek


  #2426170 24-Feb-2020 09:43
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heapsort:

 

SBQ:

 

The early termination fee is negated by the $100 sign up credit. But you're missing the point. What would encourage existing Genesis customer to switch over to Flick? Please point out the 21% price difference because i'm seeing Fixie plan as 16.10c on the off peak and 29.612c on the peak rate. Oh, and you seem to missed their 10% prompt payment discount. This makes it to 10.917c with Genesis on the low user pricing which is considerably less.

 

As far as I can see reading the Genesis website, you've diverged even further in comparing non-equivalent plans with this latest reply. Genesis advertises the $100 sign up credit (which would not entire negate the early termination fee) is a "dual fuel bonus credit" and the e-Saver plan prompt payment discount is 10% only for dual fuel customers. (It's 5% without dual fuel). So you are comparing Flick, which only sells electricity, so particular benefits of a Genesis plan that are only available to people who will also purchase gas.

 

Re the note about a rate being 21% higher: I re-checked and it is 19%. With no fixed term, the Genesis low-user peak rate is 35.33 c/kWh. That is 19% higher than 29.612 c/kWh.

 

I have no interest in the Earnie plan personally, and I have no knowledge of Flick "sending their marketing team knocking on ... doors" so I only skim-read your paragraph about those issues.

 

And finally, Flick still offer their original product now called Freestyle. Spot prices have reduced from highs in past years to levels where Flick Freestyle would be cheaper in Christchurch than any standard peak/off-peak plan with fixed rates from any retailer. I may switch back to that later this year, fully aware of the risk of high spot prices.

 

 

Again you are wrong about the bonus credit. For customer signing on as dual fuel use, they can gets $300 (on a 12 month plan), and while you may say a 12 month plan is not comparable to a non-contract plan that Flick offers, I can assure you most people don't care about being locked in for 12 months (a year goes by quite fast - even for myself I gave Flick the chance by staying with them for 18 months - no different to signing up with Spark plan for 12 months or with any other service provider). But as I said before, for new customers choosing only electricity they get the $100 credit. Another issue you need to be corrected is the 10% applies to electricity ONLY customers because I myself have been receiving this discount and it seems to spell that out on their website. For customers that are using both gas and electricity... well buddy.. the prompt payment discount goes up to 15%...

 

https://signup.genesisenergy.co.nz/offers/?offer=electricity
https://signup.genesisenergy.co.nz/offers/?offer=electricity_gas

 

The Genesis low-user peak rate of 35.33 c/kWh day rate, and 14.33c/kWh for off peak is deceptive when you don't factor the 10% discount. Though it may be higher, who really chooses that??? I am certain most users will forgo the Flexible plan and go with the much lower eSaver plan as how I keep mentioning before.

 

Don't take my word or experience as just. I mean I already looked stupid enough telling guests that come over during tea time that 'oh it's best to cook after this time... or OH NO this 30 minute block just spiked in price'. So I would suggest look at others (not the extreme 'save the world because of climate change' frugal users or those that have solar PV, etc) in similar situations that want price certainty because of their day time routines. It must be compelling enough that even Flick had to bring in their Flixie plan but it still falls short on being cheaper than what the Genesis customer can get. Look at it this way, no customer is going to pick the higher price per kWh rate just because they don't want to be locked in for 12 months and just because Flick doesn't offer such early termination fees does not mean it's an advantage to those wanting electricity.


192 posts

Master Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2426187 24-Feb-2020 10:12
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SBQ, I found the mention of $100 sign-on bonus being a "dual-fuel bonus credit" and the eSaver prompt payment discount being only 5% not 10% for electricity-only customers on this page:

 

https://signup.genesisenergy.co.nz/esaver/

 

And the eSaver discount being only 5% without dual fuel also on this page:

 

https://www.genesisenergy.co.nz/plans-and-pricing?productRegionId=5&subCategoryId=0&productId=1

 

 

 

Lots of contradictory information. Whoever updates the Genesis website may have a bit of a job ahead.

 

Flick Freestyle can be the cheapest plan available to any Christchurch residential user, or among the most expensive, depending on spot rates. Customers who use that plan are aware of this. With prices over the last few months, Flick Freestyle looks to be the cheapest. But I'm happy on Flick Fixie with the prices I have locked until August, as price isn't everything.


234 posts

Master Geek


  #2438566 15-Mar-2020 13:37
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Anyone know why the wholesale prices in the SI have been so low lately? Frequently getting notifications that it's "limbo low" go in and check and the price is 0-1c/kWh. Checking EM6Live right now and it's showing $0.03/MWh (which is ridiculous!).


12 posts

Geek


  #2438570 15-Mar-2020 13:43
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boosacnoodle:

Anyone know why the wholesale prices in the SI have been so low lately? Frequently getting notifications that it's "limbo low" go in and check and the price is 0-1c/kWh. Checking EM6Live right now and it's showing $0.03/MWh (which is ridiculous!).



I have a theory. Dams are at around 110% capacity and there's little to no tourists in the South Island using hot water etc. Don't know if this is valid but looking at petrol it makes sense. I swapped to freestyle two weeks ago and it's been great so far. I like the fact I can swap to Fixie within 12 hours if things change in winter.

371 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2438585 15-Mar-2020 14:08
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Transpower are doing extended work on the link between SI and NI that won't be completed to April, therefore, reduced capacity on the hvdc cable and low prices in the SI

1268 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2445962 25-Mar-2020 07:56
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Current prices are quite low. Will be interesting to see what happens to the freestyle price with the lock-down.

 

Lots of high power industries closing, on the other hand, lots of people at home with the heaters on as it is getting colder.

 

 

 

 


2441 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2451907 1-Apr-2020 06:50
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dolsen:

 

Current prices are quite low. Will be interesting to see what happens to the freestyle price with the lock-down.

 

Lots of high power industries closing, on the other hand, lots of people at home with the heaters on as it is getting colder.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And now one of the Tiwai potlines is shutting down. My feeling is that the increase in consumption from WFH will be less than the decrease in consumption from loss of business/industrial production - because computers/TVs etc use bugger all, and a proportion of households were already heating their spaces anyway. Also, with people working from home (or at home and not working) there will be less pronounced breakfast/dinner time peaks. 

 

Presumably fewer generator outages for maintenance too - because of lockdown, then delays in bringing critical parts/workers into the country. 

 

Seems like a good time to switch to freestyle?


371 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2451947 1-Apr-2020 08:50
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Transpower have reported that they have finished the upgrade work to the HVDC over the weekend so there will be no more constraints from moving power between the South and North Island so that should help stabilse prices especially for the North Island.


175 posts

Master Geek


  #2452029 1-Apr-2020 10:06
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nickb800:

 

And now one of the Tiwai potlines is shutting down. My feeling is that the increase in consumption from WFH will be less than the decrease in consumption from loss of business/industrial production - because computers/TVs etc use bugger all, and a proportion of households were already heating their spaces anyway.

 

 

Potline 4 which has been shut down is only 40 MW out of a contracted volume of 578 MW so the loss of this line is very small in the realms of demand.

 

This linkedin post shows the impact on national demand.


2441 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2455524 6-Apr-2020 10:01
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Have made some decent savings on freestyle for the past few days - around 20% on my total power bill (compared to Fixie) - as spot prices have been crazy low. 

 

Seeing some very odd things - gas generation trucking pretty consistently, even when prices are sittingunder $50/MWh. Have even seen diesel generation when prices were under $100/MWh.  Suspect we're in a bit of a transition period - perhaps gas baseload generation scheduled in advance of the lockdown? I'm sure prices will settle higher than they have been, but hopefully under the $98/MWh that my fixie rate (with fees) suggested - enough to offset peaks from winter cold spells


175 posts

Master Geek


  #2455540 6-Apr-2020 10:30
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The gas generation is likely from Huntly 5, which is run pretty much full time by Genesis. The reason for this is their arrangement for gas from the Kupe field is "take or pay" so given they've already paid for the gas they need to use it. That and Huntly 5 is pretty essential for the security of the upper north island transmission system.

 

As for the diesel, I couldn't comment but that may possibly be testing that is being carried out by the owner of the plant.


234 posts

Master Geek


  #2455587 6-Apr-2020 11:22
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While it's been good for consumption, it's been pretty dismal for my solar sell-back. Last week I bought at a price of 5.5 c/kWh vs. selling at 3.9 c/kWh. Usually the ratio is much better.


2441 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2455716 6-Apr-2020 13:25
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boosacnoodle:

 

While it's been good for consumption, it's been pretty dismal for my solar sell-back. Last week I bought at a price of 5.5 c/kWh vs. selling at 3.9 c/kWh. Usually the ratio is much better.

 

 

Good for being home and consuming while the sun's out though?


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