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2 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #2478341 7-May-2020 00:08
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Currently on fixie paying 0.261 per kw. Average usage of 150kw per week.

Considering going to free style plan. Is that a smart move with winter around the corner? Or perhaps another provider?

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Uber Geek

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  #2478356 7-May-2020 06:53
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Fastdifference: Currently on fixie paying 0.261 per kw. Average usage of 150kw per week.

Considering going to free style plan. Is that a smart move with winter around the corner? Or perhaps another provider?

 

It's easy and quick to change power companies so you haven't got much to lose, as long as you keep an eye on your weekly bill. 

 

I've saved 15-20% since switching from Fixie to Freestyle at the start of lockdown. Prices have been higher in the past couple of days due to cold weather (and possibly some businesses returning to production under Level 3), but as I write this the spot price is 4.4c versus my previous fixie price of 9.8c. I don't expect to keep saving 20% through winter, but I think I'll still come out ahead. 


18 posts

Geek


  #2478361 7-May-2020 07:07
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Hi, I'm on freestyle (moved over from fixie 3-4 weeks ago) and saving more money.

If you are able to ride the high prices, occasionally then this is for you.

As i understand: re Fixie: Flick is still paying the spot prices and probably gets contracts for a defined periods .... Mostl of the time Flick is actually averaging it out for us and then charging a 1-2 cents premium on top of it.

Thus if you have the capacity to bear out the high prices occasionally, then the average price will be lower, as you will not pay the flick premium ๐Ÿ˜„

You could move to paying monthly, to get a better average and reduce the spikes๐Ÿ˜„

Thanks


18 posts

Geek


  #2478365 7-May-2020 07:16
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If you try and contact Flick, re moving from Fixie to freestyle: they discourage you.

If it was truly neutral, they wouldn't.

It's possible that they make more money from Fixie: thus the discouragement.

I must repeat: you should have the capacity to handle the spikes. Also, best for someone who can change their usage to non premium times๐Ÿ˜„

Fixie extra charges: think of it as an insurance premium ๐Ÿ˜„

51 posts

Master Geek


  #2485815 18-May-2020 19:08
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My contract with Meridian Energy is ending this month. My current Meridian Energy plan everyday economy price at 28.20 c/kWh  & (Daily charge 34.11 c/day).

 

I have checked Flick Electric price in my area West Auckland Fixie plan its $0.242 per unit of power (kWh)* and $0.34 per day. for low user household.

 

Do you think Flick is the cheapest for low user household in my area? I used Powerswitch website and it showed Powershop the cheapest but compared to Flick seems to be cheaper!

 

Is there any other websites to check for cheapest price or any other Electric Company offering better deal than Flick?


SBQ

91 posts

Master Geek


  #2485875 18-May-2020 20:39
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ice2004:

 

My contract with Meridian Energy is ending this month. My current Meridian Energy plan everyday economy price at 28.20 c/kWh  & (Daily charge 34.11 c/day).

 

I have checked Flick Electric price in my area West Auckland Fixie plan its $0.242 per unit of power (kWh)* and $0.34 per day. for low user household.

 

Do you think Flick is the cheapest for low user household in my area? I used Powerswitch website and it showed Powershop the cheapest but compared to Flick seems to be cheaper!

 

Is there any other websites to check for cheapest price or any other Electric Company offering better deal than Flick?

 

 

I've found none of the online power comparison websites to be accurate. In fact they were grossly inaccurate in that they did not have an up to date pricing of Genesis Energy for Christchurch residents. They don't factor much of the different day / nite / composite / etc plans that are available for Chch residents. They also may not factor the prompt payment discounts.

I would look very closely the old fashion way. Factor in any sign up discounts. etc...


234 posts

Master Geek


  #2485892 18-May-2020 21:00
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SBQ:

 

I've found none of the online power comparison websites to be accurate. In fact they were grossly inaccurate in that they did not have an up to date pricing of Genesis Energy for Christchurch residents. They don't factor much of the different day / nite / composite / etc plans that are available for Chch residents. They also may not factor the prompt payment discounts.

I would look very closely the old fashion way. Factor in any sign up discounts. etc...

 

 

Odd that you had that experience. They are literally designed to factor in your different metering setup, prompt payment discounts and publicly available sign-up discounts. Can you provide me an ICP where this is not the case?


SBQ

91 posts

Master Geek


  #2485925 18-May-2020 21:52
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boosacnoodle:

 

Odd that you had that experience. They are literally designed to factor in your different metering setup, prompt payment discounts and publicly available sign-up discounts. Can you provide me an ICP where this is not the case?

 

 

If you look back at some of my previous posts I made the direct comparison on how out on one particular website was. The issue is that while they may have different pricing, they are not factoring old prices that many customers are still on. I'm well aware with Genesis, old customers could be with older pricings set 2 years ago in addition to a different discount scheme (ie. 12.5% vs 10%). So before anyone should consider, they need to really look hard at their current bill, what exact kWh they're paying and just as important, what hour is their day and night on. When I was with Flick (IRC) around 2 years ago, they didn't follow the Orion Network tariff scheme on off peak for weekends and I was 100% certain at that time, I called to clarify and they did say they didn't have a meter configuration that does offpeak on weekends (only everyday 9pm-7am off peak hours). Contact & Meridian too back then also didn't have the same off peak hours from 9PM to 7AM M-F (IRC, they started at 11PM) ; of course they may of all changed now but the fact being, one has to really look into their usage pattern and what on & off peak hours each retailer offers. For some, a flat rate 1 price is all they're after as they can't make use of off peak hours.

I'm at 29.30c/kWr daytime and 12.13c/kWr at night/weekends +GST -10% ppd. Unlike Flick, which transfers the Orion Network winter surcharge of some 5c/kWr on top of the standard rate for Chch residents, all the other retailers absorb this cost. It's hard to save in winter months here when those are the times you use electricity the most so the Orion surcharge really takes a bite out of any savings.

Also in previous years there use to be a lot of door knockers from Nova, etc. giving all sorts of rough quotes. What they say isn't quite the same as i've heard, they quote some 15% prompt payment discount and when the customer signs up, by going through all the hassles of moving over, they discover the discount was only 10% and certainly they realize it's a hassle to switch back or find out there was really no savings.

I'm happy being back with Genesis. For this month of May they're Power Shouting 2 x 8 hour slots. I know it's not the same as Kiwi Electric's daily 1 free hour (off peak) but at least the 8 hours is long enough to get roughly 1 day of free electricity use.


/dev/null
9458 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2485993 18-May-2020 23:01
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@SBQ You're wrong here with Fixie. Flick go with whatever meter setup you have got. Genesis in my case worked out to be quite a bit expensive than my current provider also:

 

Fixed Charge $0.91/day
Composite $0.25/kWh

 

Compared to: $0.2383 per kWh, $0.9000 per day and a "hour free" every day along with $20 credit per $200 topup with my current provider.

 

Also I very recently compared all the power providers. Flick are indeed the cheapest in my case and I had been with them for years but recently switched - I'll likely end up returning to them since they're very open and honest with their pricing but they do need to do work on their billing system. As I may have mentioned quite a number of posts ago I decided to test out Earnie and straight away ended up with more expensive bills. As it turns out for the last couple of months while I had been on Earnie their billing system wasn't taking off the "2 hour free" every day reliably. When I said this to them, and asked if I could move back to Fixie my rate was going to be a bit more expensive again so decided to try another power provider for now.

 

I am not one for blatantly recommending a power provider for my own personal gain on referrals (as somebody else here was) as I truly believe there is no power provider that is perfectly fit for every customers use.

 

@ice2004 In your case it sounds like you may be a lower user, so try Flick on Fixie and see how you find them. There are no contracts with them so you've got nothing to lose. They've got some excellent tools built into their website and they're pretty "no-frills" at being a power company, not confusing with meaningless discounts, they don't try to confuse you with different plans to sign up to, they don't lock you into a contract. Powershop in my comparisons are only good if you really manage your account by purchasing packs and are more expensive than Flick.





SBQ

91 posts

Master Geek


  #2486117 19-May-2020 10:34
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michaelmurfy:

 

@SBQ You're wrong here with Fixie. Flick go with whatever meter setup you have got. Genesis in my case worked out to be quite a bit expensive than my current provider also:

 

Fixed Charge $0.91/day
Composite $0.25/kWh

 

Compared to: $0.2383 per kWh, $0.9000 per day and a "hour free" every day along with $20 credit per $200 topup with my current provider.

 

Also I very recently compared all the power providers. Flick are indeed the cheapest in my case and I had been with them for years but recently switched - I'll likely end up returning to them since they're very open and honest with their pricing but they do need to do work on their billing system. As I may have mentioned quite a number of posts ago I decided to test out Earnie and straight away ended up with more expensive bills. As it turns out for the last couple of months while I had been on Earnie their billing system wasn't taking off the "2 hour free" every day reliably. When I said this to them, and asked if I could move back to Fixie my rate was going to be a bit more expensive again so decided to try another power provider for now.

 

I am not one for blatantly recommending a power provider for my own personal gain on referrals (as somebody else here was) as I truly believe there is no power provider that is perfectly fit for every customers use.

 

@ice2004 In your case it sounds like you may be a lower user, so try Flick on Fixie and see how you find them. There are no contracts with them so you've got nothing to lose. They've got some excellent tools built into their website and they're pretty "no-frills" at being a power company, not confusing with meaningless discounts, they don't try to confuse you with different plans to sign up to, they don't lock you into a contract. Powershop in my comparisons are only good if you really manage your account by purchasing packs and are more expensive than Flick.

 

 

Not wrong at the time I was with Flick as they couldn't offer me a different meter configuration that Genesis would provide. Your Composite price plan may work out less for you than Genesis's composite rate but certainly not for my case where i'm on a (Day rate) & (Night + Weekend rate) plan. Yes I do know now Flick does offer this same meter configuration but not going to bet on any savings because of the Orion Network winter surcharge Flick passes on if you're on Flick's Freestyle plan (not sure if Flexie or Earnie locks in flat rate price? They quote locked in Generation price and in the * print, levies and surcharges can still be added on; oh so confusion for online power comparison websites to figure out. From Flick's website:

 

"Although there is a peak charge that applies to us year-round, the winter peak charge that we pass on to you as an Orion customer is the most transparent and straightforward way that we can convert this peak demand charge to the time of year (1 May – 31 August) and to the periods of the day (7am - 10am and 5pm - 7pm) that are most reflective of the signal periods that Orion uses to calculate the charge at their end (off-peak times still run from 9pm through til 7am, and outside of the Winter Pricing times and off-peak times, standard variable charges apply)."

https://news.flickelectric.co.nz/2018/04/30/winter-electricity-pricing-for-canterbury-flicksters/

Is that not confusing enough for the Chch resident to know what hours of the day on a Flexie plan?

I had another look on Flick's website to check prices by entering my address and as usual, there was no option to choose which meter configuration for all of the 3 plans they have a price per kwh * "Estimates are based on today’s pricing, average usage and most common meter configurations of households in your network region or closest network region. If you live in a network where peak and off-peak rates are available (e.g. Christchurch, Counties and Taranaki), the price per kWh is based on a weighted average based on consumption demand across the peak and off-peak periods. The Freestyle estimate and kWh price includes the average spot price for your region over the past 6 months."

 

and there you have it - this is the key problem for any person wanting to compare prices when you use the word "estimates".

Here's is the price schedule I was on with Flick which clearly shows the extra winter surcharge for different hours of the week for Chch residents: (can't find a more recent schedule)

https://www.flickelectric.co.nz/downloads/price_schedules_Apr2016/Central-Canterbury-Price-Schedule-2016-04-01.pdf

As I mentioned before, each person needs to look closely of their consumption pattern and see if they can shift power use to off peak. If not, look at the lowest flat rate available which is easy to do.


175 posts

Master Geek


  #2486246 19-May-2020 12:05
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It sounds like the issue is the structure of the Winter Demand charge on the ORON - GEN pricing code. Every retailer I have worked for have had different approaches to managing this situation because of the way ORON have structured their pricing. None of them are perfect and really the only way to make it easier is to get ORON to change their pricing structure, something they have rejected continuously for the last 15 years.

 

ORON aggregate all costs to the GXP level by pricing code, so while for some facets it is possible to establish the ICP level costs when it comes to the Winter Peak Demand charge it's not possible. The reason for this is because the Winter Peak Demand charge is charged to a retailer in two stages.

 

Stage 1 - Estimated Charge to retailer

 

In January they notify all retailers what they expect the winter peak demand charge will be, this is based on the retailers share over the last year as well as what they believe is a realistic value for the retailer. The retailer can challenge this, but unless they are increasing their share ORON will outright reject the challenge. Interestingly if a retailer increases their estimate, ORON won't decrease other retailers estimates but instead keep them the same (because of this retailers very rarely challenge the values because they know ORON will 'double dip').

 

This charge is then averaged out on the billing from May through September (inclusive) at the GXP level as part of the proforma and invoices during this period

 

Stage 2 - The Wash-up

 

During the winter period between May and September, ORON look at real time demand and set the control periods in real time based on when the system met peak demand. After the fact when this information is all known they will then bill the retailers based on their share of the ORON - GEN kWh load (not demand) and this ignores the UFE component. Basically ORON will never be out of pocket in this arrangement. If there were 1,000 kWh consumed and only 900 kWh reconciled (UFE of 100 kWh) and demand was 100 kW through the peaks, then retailers based on their share of the 900 kWh will cover the costs of the demand.

 

What this means is that retailers will either need to just absorb the likely losses out of this arrangement or wash-up their consumers (the latter is not attractive).

 

 

 

Finally we need to add in another dynamic, ORON generally have in their UoSA with retailers that retailers will bundle their rates together so it isn't possible to break the costs down from the network charge side of things meaning there is a real lack of transparency. This is why price comparison websites can't reliably provide comparisons for the ORON - GEN pricing plan and why each retailers costs vary so much because they are simply trying to work with an awful pricing and billing structure from the network.

 

It's worth noting that ORON is the only network in NZ that takes this approach and while other networks have Winter Peak Periods they have signaled when these time bands are so they are easier on the consumer.

 

The only way to fix this is to get ORON to change their methods - something I doubt will happen anytime soon.


2441 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2486267 19-May-2020 12:27
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SBQ:

...Is that not confusing enough for the Chch resident to know what hours of the day on a Flexie plan?...

 

 

Flick seems to have revamped their Orion pricing - see the latest schedule here. There are two variable rates - peak (weekday day) and offpeak (weekday night and weekends) - sounds like the same arrangement as you get with Genesis. Presumably Flick have managed to hide the Orion winter surcharge into the day rate. 

 

Looks like Flick's fixie rate is slightly sharper than (your rate) from Genesis in the day, and slightly dearer offpeak. Interestingly, according to Consumer Powerswitch, Genesis aren't offering peak/offpeak rates in Chch to new customers - now just a single composite rate. I recall that after Genesis acquired the Tekapo power stations, they made a big push to acquire residential customers in Christchurch, and did this with peak/offpeak rates by default.

 

 


SBQ

91 posts

Master Geek


  #2486300 19-May-2020 13:05
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voy1d:

 

It sounds like the issue is the structure of the Winter Demand charge on the ORON - GEN pricing code. Every retailer I have worked for have had different approaches to managing this situation because of the way ORON have structured their pricing. None of them are perfect and really the only way to make it easier is to get ORON to change their pricing structure, something they have rejected continuously for the last 15 years.

 

ORON aggregate all costs to the GXP level by pricing code, so while for some facets it is possible to establish the ICP level costs when it comes to the Winter Peak Demand charge it's not possible. The reason for this is because the Winter Peak Demand charge is charged to a retailer in two stages.

 

Stage 1 - Estimated Charge to retailer

 

In January they notify all retailers what they expect the winter peak demand charge will be, this is based on the retailers share over the last year as well as what they believe is a realistic value for the retailer. The retailer can challenge this, but unless they are increasing their share ORON will outright reject the challenge. Interestingly if a retailer increases their estimate, ORON won't decrease other retailers estimates but instead keep them the same (because of this retailers very rarely challenge the values because they know ORON will 'double dip').

 

This charge is then averaged out on the billing from May through September (inclusive) at the GXP level as part of the proforma and invoices during this period

 

Stage 2 - The Wash-up

 

During the winter period between May and September, ORON look at real time demand and set the control periods in real time based on when the system met peak demand. After the fact when this information is all known they will then bill the retailers based on their share of the ORON - GEN kWh load (not demand) and this ignores the UFE component. Basically ORON will never be out of pocket in this arrangement. If there were 1,000 kWh consumed and only 900 kWh reconciled (UFE of 100 kWh) and demand was 100 kW through the peaks, then retailers based on their share of the 900 kWh will cover the costs of the demand.

 

What this means is that retailers will either need to just absorb the likely losses out of this arrangement or wash-up their consumers (the latter is not attractive).

 

 

 

Finally we need to add in another dynamic, ORON generally have in their UoSA with retailers that retailers will bundle their rates together so it isn't possible to break the costs down from the network charge side of things meaning there is a real lack of transparency. This is why price comparison websites can't reliably provide comparisons for the ORON - GEN pricing plan and why each retailers costs vary so much because they are simply trying to work with an awful pricing and billing structure from the network.

 

It's worth noting that ORON is the only network in NZ that takes this approach and while other networks have Winter Peak Periods they have signaled when these time bands are so they are easier on the consumer.

 

The only way to fix this is to get ORON to change their methods - something I doubt will happen anytime soon.

 

 

This is VERY informative and never understood the workings of the Orion Network pricing scheme. I do agree, they should change their approach however, being mostly owned by the Christchurch City Council, it's is very very VERY unlikely they will change. Our city is vastly in debt and spending like crazy so they need every source of revenue as much as possible. Since living in NZ, I found this arrangement will a local gov't owns a critical asset such as electricity distribution.. makes a fair % of money off the residents ; it's as if they don't get enough $ coming in from all the rates payers. I suppose this is nothing new in NZ, we have many examples where gov'ts have ownership of key assets, like Auckland City Council owning the Auckland Airport, etc.


51 posts

Master Geek


  #2486699 19-May-2020 22:01
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Today I got a call from Powershop as I sent them my current bill with Meridian Energy to compare, I was advised that they Powershop will give me $150 credit if I stay with them for 12 months (Powershop did mention they dont have contracts) and also they will beat any other Power company offer I find and will give me credit on my account so I will never lose out (guaranteed savings) refer to Powershop website https://www.powershop.co.nz/why-powershop/guaranteed-savings/

 

 

 

I did mention the rate Flick (fixie plan) gives me and was promised that they Powershop will beat their rates and give me credit on my account to guarantee savings plus the $150 credit

 

 

 

what you think? should I sign up with Powershop or Flick?

 

 

 

Found a website dedicated to NZ power industry http://thatpowerguy.nz/


234 posts

Master Geek


  #2486719 19-May-2020 22:42
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SBQ:

 

This is VERY informative and never understood the workings of the Orion Network pricing scheme. I do agree, they should change their approach however, being mostly owned by the Christchurch City Council, it's is very very VERY unlikely they will change. Our city is vastly in debt and spending like crazy so they need every source of revenue as much as possible. Since living in NZ, I found this arrangement will a local gov't owns a critical asset such as electricity distribution.. makes a fair % of money off the residents ; it's as if they don't get enough $ coming in from all the rates payers. I suppose this is nothing new in NZ, we have many examples where gov'ts have ownership of key assets, like Auckland City Council owning the Auckland Airport, etc.

 

 

Yup. Total sham on Orion's part. The fact no other network doesn't it should be the tell tale sign. The fact that you can never reconcile it also means it's a truly terrible model (for the consumer). Presumably compliance costs on retailers are passed onto consumers as well.


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