Time to give electricity the flick?

Forums › Home Workshop › Time to give electricity the flick?

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Reply # 1627645 12-Sep-2016 05:14

michaelmurfy:

So myself and @asmallchild will look at doing something for those on Spot power pricing since there is a current gap.

- Notification based events (via Pushbullet, email (maybe) and a Geekzone notification) and integration with IFTTT - Initially this may only be a threshold price we decide on to make it easy for a start.
- Programmed in Node + PHP (for the web frontend).
- Designed to be simple for the end user to more give them a reliable notification of when power pricing is abnormal.

How we'll look at doing this:

1) Query the API every 5min - if the power is spiking over lets say 15-20c/kW to send a notification.
2) Whilst it is spiking don't spam notifications - instead, only notify if it gets far worse (30c+/kW).
3) Provide a quick and easy to read web frontend to current spot power pricing (likely in Bootstrap so it is light).
4) Post in a Geekzone thread if power pricing is looking bad. I need to check with this.
5) Can potentially sort by region or work out the average price NZ wide (to make it easy). Basically want a solution you can use to get a better notification than anything else provides right now.

Hopefully by doing this we can automate things in the home much easier (with IFTTT) and lower the price of peoples power bills by providing reliable notifications using a real push mechanism.

This is an excellent idea that I would be interested in being involved at the user end. Might be worth sending notifications not only if price spikes get worse but also when they go below a threshold? Also, you might want to consider looking at the accumulation of five minute prices rather than single five-min spikes.

I wish you could get a hold of the upcoming price forecasts because that provides another level of response from Flick customers. For instance, if the price looks like spiking at dinner time I could choose not to use the oven or even go elsewhere for dinner!

luckiestmanalive

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Reply # 1628352 13-Sep-2016 09:19

voy1d:

k14:

Not sure if I am supposed to share this but there is a new webpage from electricity wits being tested currently, you can view it here uat.electricityinfo.co.nz and see what it looks like. Note that the info displayed is 5 mins delayed to the current site. I thought it looks pretty good, big improvement on the current site! You can provide feedback via this email address uat.wits@nzx.com

Good lord that is a horrible design, I don't look forward to using it...

With regards to notifications of high prices (real time / 5 minute only) there is already a website run my Mr Leyland called Node Watch that does email notifications.

5 minute prices are also delayed 5 minutes, so the period ending at 1325 is not generally published for another 5 minutes anyway (which happens in WITS prod)

Hey, V - I would be interested in why you don't like the design on the website. WITS is also supposed to provide APIs for five-minute prices and forecast prices without the lag the others have. I presume that would be more useful?

michaelmurfy

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Reply # 1628396 13-Sep-2016 10:14

luckiestmanalive:

This is an excellent idea that I would be interested in being involved at the user end. Might be worth sending notifications not only if price spikes get worse but also when they go below a threshold? Also, you might want to consider looking at the accumulation of five minute prices rather than single five-min spikes.

I wish you could get a hold of the upcoming price forecasts because that provides another level of response from Flick customers. For instance, if the price looks like spiking at dinner time I could choose not to use the oven or even go elsewhere for dinner!

Already in discussion with Flick over using their forecasts too for planning - "Dinner Alerts" may well be a thing :)

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
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voy1d

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Reply # 1628397 13-Sep-2016 10:15

I'm just not a great fan of that general "theme" which is starting to creep in where websites are trying to be everything for everyone rather than addressing the issues that the primary users have.

For the forecast prices I think it is important to make these available, but at the same time anyone reading them needs to know they can change (especially if the grid is stressed or if an input into the prices is incorrect). RTP prices as I understand will always have the additional 5 minute delay and that is a function of the Market System as opposed to WITS.

luckiestmanalive

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Reply # 1628702 13-Sep-2016 16:16

voy1d:

I'm just not a great fan of that general "theme" which is starting to creep in where websites are trying to be everything for everyone rather than addressing the issues that the primary users have.

For the forecast prices I think it is important to make these available, but at the same time anyone reading them needs to know they can change (especially if the grid is stressed or if an input into the prices is incorrect). RTP prices as I understand will always have the additional 5 minute delay and that is a function of the Market System as opposed to WITS.

Thanks, V - I agree with you. I'm not sure most users will have any use for most of the information available.

xlinknz

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Reply # 1644172 2-Oct-2016 14:33

I am considering Flick but am now changing my mind, having read the last 10 pages of this thread [& fb comments] I get the impression that the Choice app is not currently reliable to get notifications and there are no provider alternatives i.e. an email

Would that be a fair summary ?

I also asked Flick whether there was to be an update to their app or an alternative mechanism and they said they couldn't advise an ETA

nickb800

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Reply # 1644174 2-Oct-2016 14:37

xlinknz:

I am considering Flick but am now changing my mind, having read the last 10 pages of this thread [& fb comments] I get the impression that the Choice app is not currently reliable to get notifications and there are no provider alternatives i.e. an email

Would that be a fair summary ?

I also asked Flick whether there was to be an update to their app or an alternative mechanism and they said they couldn't advise an ETA

You can get email notifications from Nodewatch for free, but these aren't forecasts like the supposed Flick notifications.

Yes notifications are a problem, but despite our whinging, we're all saving bucket loads of money (right guys?) so it's still worth it I reckon.

michaelmurfy

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Reply # 1644187 2-Oct-2016 15:03

The extra $80 per month (average) is better in my pocket than the next cheapest power providers.

Just try it, no contracts so what have you got to lose?

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
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xlinknz

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Reply # 1644189 2-Oct-2016 15:25

nickb800:

xlinknz:

I am considering Flick but am now changing my mind, having read the last 10 pages of this thread [& fb comments] I get the impression that the Choice app is not currently reliable to get notifications and there are no provider alternatives i.e. an email

Would that be a fair summary ?

I also asked Flick whether there was to be an update to their app or an alternative mechanism and they said they couldn't advise an ETA

You can get email notifications from Nodewatch for free, but these aren't forecasts like the supposed Flick notifications.

Yes notifications are a problem, but despite our whinging, we're all saving bucket loads of money (right guys?) so it's still worth it I reckon.

michaelmurfy: The extra $80 per month (average) is better in my pocket than the next cheapest power providers.

Just try it, no contracts so what have you got to lose?

Thank you for the replies

At this stage I can save just as much money with a different provider with no risk of spikes that I may not get notifications for. See my thread here

If I knew Flick would get their notifications reliable i.e. fix the app or even email I'd be far less reluctant.

Has anyone heard when that may occur ?

timmmay

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Reply # 1644197 2-Oct-2016 15:53

The spikes tend to occur at fairly predictable times - 7:30am and 5:30pm weekdays when it's really cold, or when weather changes to cold suddenly. There are others, but not many. On days like that you can easily check their app, their website, or em6, and you can sign up for alerts from nodewatch. Their app alerts semi reliably.

If you change to Flick and don't change your behavior or pay attention you'll save money. If you change to Flick and pay a little attention you'll save money. If you pay a little attention and change behavior slightly you'll save more. If you do things like install a hot water timer you'll save even more. I think the main type of people who shouldn't be on Flick are those who live paycheck to paycheck where $10 is a significant amount of money. They'll save in the medium term, but they may get a higher bill occasionally.

I've saved around $920 in 18 months, and I've spent $300 on a hot water timer to help that.

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voy1d

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Reply # 1644377 2-Oct-2016 20:29

As an aside, with daylight savings now the evenings will be less "peaky" as lighting load won't be coming on at the same time as cooking load.

voy1d

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Reply # 1645070 4-Oct-2016 09:59

Production version of WITS FTA.

rayonline

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Reply # 1650186 13-Oct-2016 10:50

Hey guys, can you have me an idea of the spot prices throughout the day? There is someone at home usually as they are retired plus they use a lot of power like normal people - cooking dinner, heating the rooms at dinner time to 10PM plus the others are home too using computers, etc... They also enjoy cooking so can spend an hour preparing foods etc.

If one wasn't going to delay the washing machine / dishwashing machine to a later time how does Flick compare to the others?

We are with Genesis and take advantage of their 1 month free credit every 12 months by renewing the contract, we've found them cheaper than Contact etc ... we are in Wellington with a dual composite meter. We have instant gas for water and the cooktops so much of the cooking and hot showers savings won't be seen for us.....

timmmay

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Reply # 1650194 13-Oct-2016 11:01

@rayonline, you can see prices on the EM6 website. $50 means 5c/kwh, but you have to add line rates to that, which vary around the country - the flick website has that. Short version is 99% of the time prices are lower than most power companies charge. Some mornings (not recently, more in winter or when it's cold) there are spikes that take the price up to about what most companies charge, or sometimes a bit above, for short periods - though I had a quick look back and can't easily find anything significant - significant events are rare. We mitigate this by having heating come on at 6am, during off peak times, and turning down a bit for the 7 - 8am period.

I'm paying 13c/kwh inc GST right now, and that's fairly typical of the past few weeks. Flick gives customers a dashboard so you can easily see current prices, and it's available by phone app as well. I'm down from $45 - $55 per week in winter to $35 - $40 per week, and that's with myself and my wife home during the day recently. Total savings since I joined Flick May 2015 is $960, but I did spend $250 to have a timer put in so my hot water heats off peak. That's a saving of $56/month.

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rayonline

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Reply # 1650214 13-Oct-2016 11:11

When you say you are paying 13c/kwh including GST is that including the variable rate which Flick list on their website as 15.443c per unit (low user) or 8.863c (high user)?

We use about 5,000 units per year. $1,400 Genesis now, $1,000 Flick without the spot price. We get further $200 credit per year perhaps. So that leaves a difference of $200 perhaps $300 per year. Just thinking whether with 5,000 units the spot price would be at least that.

Update:

FWIW I added a 5c spot price and then added GST on top of that. Genesis at the moment with 5,000 units charges $1,400 for the year. Flick is $1,300 (low user) or $1,500 (high user).

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