Time to give electricity the flick?

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#1650219 13-Oct-2016 11:15

Yes that's the total price I'm paying per kwh for power, including generation, distribution, margins, etc, in Wellington. Line rates and margins are different throughout the country. I pay something like 3c/kwh line rates 11pm - 7am, 6c/kwh 7am - 11pm.

Flick say the average savings is 14%.

rayonline

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#1650259 13-Oct-2016 11:54

Thanks for that. We have a composite meter so it is 3.8c (offpeak) and 8.8c (peak) without spot price. But because we are a lower user the it becomes 9c and 15c per unit without spot.

You must be on the single meter.

We just don't have much stuff working at night apart from fridges. Computers are turned off. No electric night store heaters. When we were away for 2 weeks, we consumed 3.5kwh per day, 30 days, Treating it as the offpeak peak scenario 12 hours this equates 52.5kwh for the month. The difference of our 15c to 9c, is 6c. 52kwh is about a $3.00 saving at offpeak for the month

timmmay

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#1650329 13-Oct-2016 12:31

We're on a smart meter, which is a requirement to use Flick.

At night we run the dishwasher, clothes drier, and water heating. Even if you don't do anything off peak you'll likely save money over a regular fixed price company.

martyyn

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#1670698 14-Nov-2016 13:27

I'm tempted to give this a crack but I must be missing something.

We are two adults and three kids (two teenagers). Wife and kids often shower at the swimming pool so its only run maybe two/three times a day. We are on low pressure at the beach so they are rarely long showers. Dishwasher runs twice daily, washing machine will be once a day and we rarely use the dryer. Cooking every night from 5pm and we have a wood burner with simple panel heaters in the bedrooms over the winter. Using the average daily kWh Powershop have us down for 10236kWh annually. I'd assume that makes us decent users.

So as a quick test I've taken the average/day kWh from my Powershop invoices. Taken the average MWh spot price for each month from the emi website, added 1.5c for Flick, added the 40c day rate, added GST and I come out at $1042.47 for the year. Given we have paid Powershop $3033 that doesn't seem correct.

What am I missing ?

[e] Got my Powershop calcs wrong. It was more !

[e2] Its the variable amount I'm missing isn't it ? If I take the standard 'Uncontrolled single meter' at 14.613c and add that my Flick bill is $2875 so only $225 less annually.

zerkms

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#1670700 14-Nov-2016 13:30

Oops, below 8000kWh/y here, so our prices are different, sorry.

droopanu

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#1670760 14-Nov-2016 13:52

martyyn:

I'm tempted to give this a crack but I must be missing something.

We are two adults and three kids (two teenagers). Wife and kids often shower at the swimming pool so its only run maybe two/three times a day. We are on low pressure at the beach so they are rarely long showers. Dishwasher runs twice daily, washing machine will be once a day and we rarely use the dryer. Cooking every night from 5pm and we have a wood burner with simple panel heaters in the bedrooms over the winter. Using the average daily kWh Powershop have us down for 10236kWh annually. I'd assume that makes us decent users.

So as a quick test I've taken the average/day kWh from my Powershop invoices. Taken the average MWh spot price for each month from the emi website, added 1.5c for Flick, added the 40c day rate, added GST and I come out at $1042.47 for the year. Given we have paid Powershop $3033 that doesn't seem correct.

What am I missing ?

[e] Got my Powershop calcs wrong. It was more !

Flick's reporting capabilities are a bit bad, so it's a bit harder to do the yearly averages, but we are a standard user, using 9-10MW/year ... So pretty close to you.

So far, since we switched to Flick, in May 2016, we've been paying an average of 10-11kwh (no GST) plus 1.97/day.

Quick math, at 10MW/y would be:

( 365*1.97 + (10000*0.11) ) * 1.15 = $2091

Kraven

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#1670770 14-Nov-2016 14:04

^ Calculations above need to add in transmission/distribution charges, which vary by region and local lines company.

Breakdown is here.

rayonline

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#1670773 14-Nov-2016 14:06

I got someone's Flick receipt and did some calculations.

With, 10,000kW usage.

Standard plans like Genesis Household that most people get cost $2877 PA with the 10% discount.

Flick is $2421 (low user) or $2259 (standard user). This is using the spot price I got from their receipt but it is not that accurate b/c that was just that spot price for that period. If we take off the spot price it is ~$2,000 (low user) or $1,800 (standard user) - you then apply your own spot price.

However if one joins a plan like Genesis's eSaver with electronic invoices, autopayment etc .. it cost $2,583. So it's about $300 cheaper versus Flick $2259) with the est. spot price I had. 300/2583 = ~12% cheaper than Genesis's eSaver.

Using a separate calculation on my spreadsheet.

We only use 5,000kW b/c we have instant gas. So our difference is just $90.00. Flick is 6.6% less. $1273 vs $1354.

Location - Wellington.

timmmay

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#1670787 14-Nov-2016 14:34

I know in my dashboard Flick tells me I'm saving 33% compared with my old power provider, and that's saving $1036 since I moved to Flick around 18 months ago. I use a timer for hot water, with some top-up water heating during the day, and we wash in warm water. We try to run the dishwasher and clothes drier off peak, but the drier runs whenever required.

I could work out my Flick average rate for the past year or so when I turn my main computer on, as I have all my data that they sent me.

rayonline

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#1670920 14-Nov-2016 18:58

@Tim - if you can do that I can provide a few price plans that legacy power companies like Genesis use. Can also provide what Contact and Mercury provide also. I rang them up recently but they will only be on a composite meter. The Genesis plans will be a standard meter. Let me know how many units you consumed and how many days it was.

timmmay

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#1670991 14-Nov-2016 20:53

I have more data somewhere, but what I can say easily is the generation rate (national floating rate) for power between start of May and end of July this year was 5.3c/kwh. Note this doesn't include line/transmission charge, Flick margin, daily charge, GST, and is for Wellington.

The average from 1 Jan 2014 to 31st March 2015 was 7.9c, again plus everything mentioned above.

rayonline

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#1670999 14-Nov-2016 21:01

Those figures I used above is just off this Flick PDF document. So I computed 5000 units or 10,000 units with 365 days.

https://www.flickelectric.co.nz/downloads/price_schedules_Apr2016/Wellington-Price-Schedule-2016-04-01-v2.pdf

The spot price I used was $0.045198 per kW. This was provided off someone's invoice. I used that figure and applied it for all the 5,000 or 10,000 units for the year.

I set up my spreadsheet for Flick the same format of their invoice.

When and if you can provide some specific data like just the amount of units you used and how many day it was I can say what Genesis cost with their lowest plan.

Genesis charges $1.71 per day and $19.89 per unit for their standard plan. Their low user plan is $0.3333 per day and $26.17 per unit. These are ex GST and not including the 10% off.

Edit - FWIW. Taking the standard single meter off Flick's PDF.

Flick = $1479.88785 without spot. With the spot I used = $1999.66.

Genesis cost $2583.00.

This is with 10,000kW. Single meter with control. Interesting the single meter without control is a higher charge.

rayonline

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#1671007 14-Nov-2016 21:20

timmmay:

I have more data somewhere, but what I can say easily is the national floating rate for power between start of May and end of July this year was 5.3c/kwh. Note this doesn't include line/transmission charge, Flick margin, daily charge, GST, and is for Wellington.

The average from 1 Jan 2014 to 31st March 2015 was 7.9c, again plus everything mentioned above.

7.9c inclusive of everything? 365 days at this 7.9c per kW = $1629 for the 10,000kW. Your figures seems to be lesser than other people though. Maybe the diff timing of use ..... The difficulty of mine is that we don't really delay appliances and they still prefer to hand wash dishes and cook and clean at peak hours.

timmmay

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#1671010 14-Nov-2016 21:26

rayonline:

7.9c inclusive of everything? 365 days at this 7.9c per kW = $1629 for the 10,000kW. Your figures seems to be lesser than other people though. Maybe the diff timing of use ..... The difficulty of mine is that we don't really delay appliances and they still prefer to hand wash dishes and cook and clean at peak hours.

No, not including everything. I said

The number I gave is the generation price. The retail rate is this plus:

Transmission cost (charged per kwh)
Metering charge
Flick Margin
Other like daily charge

So basically take the number I gave you, look at the Flick price list for your region, and you can work the rest out. It's a fairly simple calculation.

For example right now the generation rate is 4.5c/kwh but the total price I'm paying is 12.88c/kwh. Transmission is expensive, Flick margin is pretty small, daily charge is added on top, etc.

Or you can just assume that their 14% saving over standard power companies is about right, and know that with some effort you can probably reach 33% like me. It would take some more extreme measures to go much further IMHO.

rayonline

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#1671021 14-Nov-2016 21:41

5.3c as in the spot price and use other numbers on the Flick PDF. This is the uncontrolled single meter.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/28l6i7g154jo64m/Captureflick2.JPG?dl=0

Edited to include the screenshot that shows the other Genesis price plans.

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