Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | ... | 132
2438 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #1749305 28-Mar-2017 11:35
Send private message quote this post

pogo:

 

I've just changed over to Flick (I'm in Canterbury). Can anyone tell me how often I can expect price spikes? Do these generally happen at a certain time of day? Is it likely that they could happen overnight when things like hot water, heat pump, or perhaps an EV are charging?

 

 

Price spikes seem to be less common in the South Island than the North. They can happen anytime but seem to be more frequent in peak times e.g cold afternoon/evening. 

 

If you are on the Orion (Christchurch) network then it's more important to understand the pricing schedule - peak/offpeak/shoulder pricing


16220 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1749311 28-Mar-2017 11:49
Send private message quote this post

pogo:

 

I've just changed over to Flick (I'm in Canterbury). Can anyone tell me how often I can expect price spikes? Do these generally happen at a certain time of day? Is it likely that they could happen overnight when things like hot water, heat pump, or perhaps an EV are charging?

 

 

In Wellington, none recently. Prices rise during peak times just about every day in winter though, 7-8 and 5:30 - 7:30. Spikes tend to occur when there's just not enough generation capacity (ie a super cold day) or when there's a sudden unexpected demand like a cold snap that wasn't forecast.


175 posts

Master Geek


  #1749315 28-Mar-2017 11:52
Send private message quote this post

timmmay:

 

 

 

In Wellington, none recently. Prices rise during peak times just about every day in winter though, 7-8 and 5:30 - 7:30. Spikes tend to occur when there's just not enough generation capacity (ie a super cold day) or when there's a sudden unexpected demand like a cold snap that wasn't forecast.

 

 

 

 

*bites lip*


4644 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1749316 28-Mar-2017 11:54
Send private message quote this post

pogo:

 

I've just changed over to Flick (I'm in Canterbury). Can anyone tell me how often I can expect price spikes? Do these generally happen at a certain time of day? Is it likely that they could happen overnight when things like hot water, heat pump, or perhaps an EV are charging?

 

 

First off, just like financial investment returns, trends of past spikes are no indication of future trends! Also, I imagine the frequency, timing and severity will vary by location.

 

My experience after being with Flick just pm two years is significant spikes have been few and far between. There was a spike (ha ha) of them last year - this was discussed quite a bit at the time in this thread so perhaps go back to read these posts? I recall only one or two of those made a significant impact on the bill. So, overall, thus far it's been fairly smooth sailing. A programme on NatRad's This Way Up last Saturday on power options mentioned it's been a relatively benign market the past few years, with falling demand, overcapacity and increased competition keeping the market relatively subdued.


16220 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1749373 28-Mar-2017 13:14
Send private message quote this post

voy1d:

 

 

 

*bites lip*

 

 

Pricing has been very flat recently. There may have been the odd spike here or there, but nothing noteworthy that I remember.

 

What is still confusing me is the Flick rate is flat, but the market prices fluctuates a lot.


16220 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1749380 28-Mar-2017 13:32
Send private message quote this post

You have to think about the big picture, not the daily fluctuations. According to Flick, since I moved over two years ago I've spent 25% less than I would on my old provider.

 

My usage patterns have changed a little - I heat hot water overnight and run the dishwasher overnight. We lost the discounted off peak line charge recently though, which means heating water overnight is only a small advantage now - the payback period is longer and really only make sense as it mitigates bulk power usage during spikes.

 

I talked to someone at Wellington Electricity recently, after I sent in an email about the changes to off-peak power increasing bills. The gist what they said was they're considering introducing off peak pricing, but it would take some time, not least due to regulations such as only changing prices annually. They said something about other providers who've introduced it haven't seen wide adoption, and I guess it costs them money to make changes like that, plus not all power companies can support that pricing model. They're a business as well as a utility, so I guess there's no real reason for them to offer off-peak discounts without raising peak prices, unless peak load capacity is a problem.


109 posts

Master Geek

Subscriber

  #1749388 28-Mar-2017 13:44
Send private message quote this post

I'm in Christchurch too and have been with Flick since Oct. In that time, I'm reasonably sure the per unit cost has only once ever risen (spiked) above what I would have paid if I were still with Genesis - and that was in an off peak period a few Sundays ago.  As has been stated, the spikes are infrequent and short lived - whereas the troughs have happened more often and are longer lasting (e.g. between around 1:30am and 3:30am this morning, the spot price was around 0.1c per unit. There was a weekend in Nov. when the Cook Strait cable was down for maintenance - the spot price flat-lined for most of a day.


175 posts

Master Geek


  #1749427 28-Mar-2017 14:25
Send private message quote this post

timmmay:

 

voy1d:

 

 

 

*bites lip*

 

 

Pricing has been very flat recently. There may have been the odd spike here or there, but nothing noteworthy that I remember.

 

What is still confusing me is the Flick rate is flat, but the market prices fluctuates a lot.

 

 

 

 

My biting lip was your comment around the demand forecasting. Lets just say that yes you were right about "cold snaps not being forecast" but usually everyone but a certain organisation involved in the market sees them coming a mile out. If you read this you might be able to read between the lines of what I'm saying.

 

The last few weeks prices haven't tended to move too much away from the $40 - $50 MWh bracket though to be fair they did elevate to around $80 last week. Summer / Autumn tends to be pretty flat especially given the price points in the market. It's also important to note that 5 minute schedules aren't used in the final pricing runs but they do provide an indication of what is going on.

 

Overall, as hydro storage decreases in the South Island (you're starting to see this with the Manapouri and Clutha schemes backing off) prices may elevate. The impact on the NI is entirely dependent on what happens with IR as well.

 

But if you wanted a one liner "Demand has been softer than it has historically been at this time of the year"


1056 posts

Uber Geek


  #1756989 5-Apr-2017 13:29
Send private message quote this post

I'm trying to work out whether Flick will stack up for my use-case (new build, loads of insulation, and underfloor heating/hot water cylinder heated via air-to-water heatpump).  

 

 

 

Conventional wisdom with this kind of set up is that you get uncontrolled day/night pricing, and while the spot-pricing model sounds appealing, I must confess I find Flick's pricing hard to get my head around, especially when I don't know what spot rates are in Dunedin (Mosgiel specifically) for certain times of year/day

 

 

 

Any assistance welcome!!


16220 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1757013 5-Apr-2017 13:47
Send private message quote this post

Flick is typically cheaper than other power companies, but more variable. If you think you'll use a lot of power in peak periods in winter (6:30 - 8am, 5:30 - 7:30pm) then you might consider elsewhere, but with your setup I doubt you'll have large peak usage. Flick should be cheaper for you.

 

For bonus points, have your water heating run outside peak periods, ideally overnight. A cylinder lasts a surprisingly long time without any heating - if we have three average showers in a day it'd last 2-3 days. Of course we heat every night, and you should heat at least every night to avoid legionaries disease.


2438 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #1757015 5-Apr-2017 13:56
Send private message quote this post

nofam:

 

I'm trying to work out whether Flick will stack up for my use-case (new build, loads of insulation, and underfloor heating/hot water cylinder heated via air-to-water heatpump).  

 

 

 

Conventional wisdom with this kind of set up is that you get uncontrolled day/night pricing, and while the spot-pricing model sounds appealing, I must confess I find Flick's pricing hard to get my head around, especially when I don't know what spot rates are in Dunedin (Mosgiel specifically) for certain times of year/day

 

 

 

Any assistance welcome!!

 

 

 

 

See here for spot price history

 

http://www.emi.ea.govt.nz/Datasets/Wholesale/Final_pricing/Final_prices

 

As you can see it is highly variable. I work off an average 6cents/unit in Christchurch, which should be similar to you.

 

One basic test is to add 6cents/unit (spot price) to Flick's winter variable price and compare to your next best retailer (make sure you are consistently including or excluding GST). If the total price per unit in winter with Flick is comparable to your next best retailer, then you'll probably be better off with Flick as you'll be saving oodles in summer and off-peak, even if winter is comparable.

 

How much control do you have over your heat pump systems - can you set timers?


1056 posts

Uber Geek


  #1757016 5-Apr-2017 13:58
Send private message quote this post

timmmay:

 

Flick is typically cheaper than other power companies, but more variable. If you think you'll use a lot of power in peak periods in winter (6:30 - 8am, 5:30 - 7:30pm) then you might consider elsewhere, but with your setup I doubt you'll have large peak usage. Flick should be cheaper for you.

 

For bonus points, have your water heating run outside peak periods, ideally overnight. A cylinder lasts a surprisingly long time without any heating - if we have three average showers in a day it'd last 2-3 days. Of course we heat every night, and you should heat at least every night to avoid legionaries disease.

 

 

 

 

Thanks timmmay - yes, as I understand it, the UFH control will come on at a scheduled time - typically this is 11pm - 7am for night rates on an uncontrolled plan, with the theory being that your concrete slab acts as a heatsink, absorbing the cheap heat all night, and then dissipating in during daylight hours to provide warmth.  Because the HWC also provides all domestic hot water, it can come on 'on-demand' to bring the cylinder back up to the required heat.  

 

I suspect you'd pretty much get day/night rates effectively with Flick, as the spot price must be based on demand/supply, so the spot at 2am must surely be lower than at 6pm?

 

I've also specified dishwasher/washing machine/dryer to have delayed start timers, so I can run these in the middle of the night, once I established when spot pricing was typically lower.

 

@SumnerBoy - you have an UFH setup very much like I'm doing - are you with Flick?


16220 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1757022 5-Apr-2017 14:06
Send private message quote this post

Using timers like that you're very likely to save with Flick. Have a look at the price history Nick posted, or even easier this one which is for the past day or so. Yes it is typically going to be quite a bit cheaper to use power overnight. Don't forget to add the line rate and such to to the floating price.


1724 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  #1757023 5-Apr-2017 14:07
Send private message quote this post

I am with Meridian down here in ChCh so have cheap night rates from 9pm-7am. 


1056 posts

Uber Geek


  #1757026 5-Apr-2017 14:10
Send private message quote this post

SumnerBoy:

 

I am with Meridian down here in ChCh so have cheap night rates from 9pm-7am. 

 

 

 

 

Cool - have you ever looked into whether spot-based pricing might be cheaper?


1 | ... | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | ... | 132
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic


News »

Freeview On Demand app launches on Sony Android TVs
Posted 6-Aug-2020 13:35


UFB hits more than one million connections
Posted 6-Aug-2020 09:42


D-Link A/NZ extends COVR Wi-Fi EasyMesh System series with new three-pack
Posted 4-Aug-2020 15:01


New Zealand software Rfider tracks coffee from Colombia all the way to New Zealand businesses
Posted 3-Aug-2020 10:35


Logitech G launches Pro X Wireless gaming headset
Posted 3-Aug-2020 10:21


Sony Alpha 7S III provides supreme imaging performance
Posted 3-Aug-2020 10:11


Sony introduces first CFexpress Type A memory card
Posted 3-Aug-2020 10:05


Marsello acquires Goody consolidating online and in-store marketing position
Posted 30-Jul-2020 16:26


Fonterra first major customer for Microsoft's New Zealand datacentre
Posted 30-Jul-2020 08:07


Everything we learnt at the IBM Cloud Forum 2020
Posted 29-Jul-2020 14:45


Dropbox launches native HelloSign workflow and data residency in Australia
Posted 29-Jul-2020 12:48


Spark launches 5G in Palmerston North
Posted 29-Jul-2020 09:50


Lenovo brings speed and smarter features to new 5G mobile gaming phone
Posted 28-Jul-2020 22:00


Withings raises $60 million to enable bridge between patients and healthcare
Posted 28-Jul-2020 21:51


QNAP integrates Catalyst Cloud Object Storage into Hybrid Backup solution
Posted 28-Jul-2020 21:40



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.