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Mr Snotty
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  Reply # 1823310 16-Jul-2017 16:32
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Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

This has been a days issue not an every second week for a week one. If you use Flick you get low rates all through the year, and this day's issue may happen a couple of times. Beats me how some love the low rates but can't endure the opposite for a very brief period

 

I agree with you, but the point I am trying to make is that you need to be home to be able to manage it. If switching appliances off is out of your control, then flick is not right for you.

 

Granted it was brief period (2 days in a row), but Winter is far from over and there is more to come. I guess its a risk that some are prepared to take, and others not. Personally I would just prefer a flat rate, even if its a bit more.

 

I just don't see the point of being at work, receiving notification of high prices etc when there is little I can actually do.

 

Flick is a great idea, they can make far better by perhaps giving users the flexibility of switching between a fixed rate/spot prices whenever required.

 

With me since my sister never would watch the price of power I ended up spending more in total in the time I've been with Flick compared to EK at the current rates. The problem is her use would be in peak times and no matter how many times I'd tell her she wouldn't change her habits so I am better off with another provider. Again, if it was just me managing it then I'll still be on Flick.

 

Great concept - just not for everyone.





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  Reply # 1823316 16-Jul-2017 16:47
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Wiggum:

tdgeek:

This has been a days issue not an every second week for a week one. If you use Flick you get low rates all through the year, and this day's issue may happen a couple of times. Beats me how some love the low rates but can't endure the opposite for a very brief period


I agree with you, but the point I am trying to make is that you need to be home to be able to manage it. If switching appliances off is out of your control, then flick is not right for you.


Granted it was brief period (2 days in a row), but Winter is far from over and there is more to come. I guess its a risk that some are prepared to take, and others not. Personally I would just prefer a flat rate, even if its a bit more.


I just don't see the point of being at work, receiving notification of high prices etc when there is little I can actually do.


Flick is a great idea, they can make far better by perhaps giving users the flexibility of switching between a fixed rate/spot prices whenever required.


 


 



I do agree that reacting to price notifications manually is not practical (especially for families).
With more devices supporting wifi and bluetooth it does get easier to automate it though.
I have automated our heating so that devices are turned off by my Flick app when the price spikes. When the price is low and we are at home then the temperature is at around 21-22 degrees. When the price is higher than usual but still acceptable then the temperature varies between 19-21 degrees.
Bottom line is I don't need to do anything except switching the heater on in the morning and off in the evening.
Wifi sockets are reaching 10 dollar per piece and a wifi heatpump sensor costs between 50-100 dollar so it's not even a very expensive setup given the steady room temperature has its benefits too. ;)

I think Flick has an interesting model but most home devices are not quiet there yet to be able to take full (automated) advantage of it.
But I think many electric cars for example already allow API based stopping /resuming of charging - unfortunately it will be another 3-4 years until the ones with 300km+ range will be affordable.

 
 
 
 




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  Reply # 1823345 16-Jul-2017 17:30
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I wonder what the minimum cost would be to be able to do automatic control of

 

     

  1.  Heat pump
  2. Radio controlled heaters
  3. Hot water

 

Dishwashers, (some) clothes washers can be scheduled usually.

 

I guess Ovens are more difficult if you need to cook a specific meal though often slow cookers can be substituted if planned well ahead.


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  Reply # 1823349 16-Jul-2017 17:48
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gchiu:

 

I wonder what the minimum cost would be to be able to do automatic control of

 

     

  1.  Heat pump
  2. Radio controlled heaters
  3. Hot water

 

Dishwashers, (some) clothes washers can be scheduled usually.

 

I guess Ovens are more difficult if you need to cook a specific meal though often slow cookers can be substituted if planned well ahead.

 

 

I don't think it will really solve very much.

 

What I have learned over the last few days is that even if you can switch off to save power, sometimes you can't (no matter the cost).

 

Power is a necessity, you can get away with switching off off-peak hours (thats easy), but you can't always switch off during peak hours (7am-9am, 5pm-9pm), its the worst time to switch things off and try to save power. And thats generally when all the spikes happen.

 

Good luck to those that want to stay with Flick. To me life is too short to stress about hundreds of phone notifications, and walk around switching off/on heat pumps, dryers etc.

 

$40 for one day of power is where I draw the line. I have signed up with Electric kiwi.

 

 

 

 

 

 




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  Reply # 1823374 16-Jul-2017 18:11
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Wiggum:

 

 

 

$40 for one day of power is where I draw the line. I have signed up with Electric kiwi.

 

 

I'm seeing $50 for Wednesday and $70 for Thursday.  I guess Friday is going to be as bad.

 

But I should still be ahead over the year.


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  Reply # 1823434 16-Jul-2017 19:57
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tdgeek:

This has been a days issue not an every second week for a week one. If you use Flick you get low rates all through the year, and this day's issue may happen a couple of times. Beats me how some love the low rates but can't endure the opposite for a very brief period


Nobody is worried about a few expensive days, it's the uncertainty of how long it will last which is the concern. In theory it could go on for several weeks, which would lead to huge losses for many people. 

 

So far we're up just over $200 by being with Flick. Based on the highest days last week, if those prices were to continue for a month, a $300 bill would be close to $900. It would take a long time to recoup that $600 loss.

Hopefully we don't see last week's prices return tomorrow.




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  Reply # 1823440 16-Jul-2017 20:18
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I'm still over $1200 in savings so far.  So a few expensive days aren't going to bother me yet.


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  Reply # 1823442 16-Jul-2017 20:35
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Wiggum:

 

My prices over the last few days.

 

Thursday and Friday are still estimates, but I think they are more or less right.

 

ouch .....

 

 

You have my sympathy! We'd be looking at a bare minimum $26 per day on Flick at present, yet we are averaging about $11 this week on EK.


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  Reply # 1823444 16-Jul-2017 20:45
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tdgeek:

This has been a days issue not an every second week for a week one. If you use Flick you get low rates all through the year, and this day's issue may happen a couple of times. Beats me how some love the low rates but can't endure the opposite for a very brief period

 

Why should we endure these highs though? It's a competitive open market which Flick and EK well know. Most people jump from one Internet deal to another regularly, or one bank to another, one cell provider to another etc. why not Power? I have no shame in saying that I am out to save my family the most I can, if that means jumping ship due to a "very brief period" of high rates (try weeks of it now) than so be it. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I had no loyalty to Flick like I have no loyalty to Electric Kiwi now. If either went under I wouldn't shed a tear I'd just look for the next best deal and enjoy that while I could.


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  Reply # 1823558 17-Jul-2017 06:50
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Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

This has been a days issue not an every second week for a week one. If you use Flick you get low rates all through the year, and this day's issue may happen a couple of times. Beats me how some love the low rates but can't endure the opposite for a very brief period

 

I agree with you, but the point I am trying to make is that you need to be home to be able to manage it. If switching appliances off is out of your control, then flick is not right for you.

 

Granted it was brief period (2 days in a row), but Winter is far from over and there is more to come. I guess its a risk that some are prepared to take, and others not. Personally I would just prefer a flat rate, even if its a bit more.

 

I just don't see the point of being at work, receiving notification of high prices etc when there is little I can actually do.

 

Flick is a great idea, they can make far better by perhaps giving users the flexibility of switching between a fixed rate/spot prices whenever required.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is a great idea, it still is, nothing has changed. but I cannot believe your last phrase. You want the lowest price but not the risk that goes with that. Thats crazy and thats not the model they run and you subscribed to. Analogy is you don't want to pay insurance premiums. But if you need to claim, you will for that day.

 

You can:

 

Go to a fixed rate company, the highs and lows are managed for you

 

Pay the Flick bill and a bit more each payment, build up a buffer. Many do that themselves, many companies have an option to assess the annual average and you pay that. 


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  Reply # 1823565 17-Jul-2017 07:09
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Sam91:

 

tdgeek:

This has been a days issue not an every second week for a week one. If you use Flick you get low rates all through the year, and this day's issue may happen a couple of times. Beats me how some love the low rates but can't endure the opposite for a very brief period


Nobody is worried about a few expensive days, it's the uncertainty of how long it will last which is the concern. In theory it could go on for several weeks, which would lead to huge losses for many people. 

 

So far we're up just over $200 by being with Flick. Based on the highest days last week, if those prices were to continue for a month, a $300 bill would be close to $900. It would take a long time to recoup that $600 loss.

Hopefully we don't see last week's prices return tomorrow.

 

 

Many are in fact worried. This is a days issue. The polar blast in school holidays probably is a key reason that it went up as much as it did, but as someone said earlier, this is normal, and this issue, this year is not the worst it has been


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  Reply # 1823566 17-Jul-2017 07:12
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kingjj:

 

tdgeek:

This has been a days issue not an every second week for a week one. If you use Flick you get low rates all through the year, and this day's issue may happen a couple of times. Beats me how some love the low rates but can't endure the opposite for a very brief period

 

Why should we endure these highs though? It's a competitive open market which Flick and EK well know. Most people jump from one Internet deal to another regularly, or one bank to another, one cell provider to another etc. why not Power? I have no shame in saying that I am out to save my family the most I can, if that means jumping ship due to a "very brief period" of high rates (try weeks of it now) than so be it. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I had no loyalty to Flick like I have no loyalty to Electric Kiwi now. If either went under I wouldn't shed a tear I'd just look for the next best deal and enjoy that while I could.

 

 

Thats ok. If everybody does that, Flick ends. So you go back to fixed rate, and pay the average of the years prices to buffer this high period, plus a premium. Lose Lose


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  Reply # 1824113 18-Jul-2017 00:07
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tdgeek:

 

Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

This has been a days issue not an every second week for a week one. If you use Flick you get low rates all through the year, and this day's issue may happen a couple of times. Beats me how some love the low rates but can't endure the opposite for a very brief period

 

I agree with you, but the point I am trying to make is that you need to be home to be able to manage it. If switching appliances off is out of your control, then flick is not right for you.

 

Granted it was brief period (2 days in a row), but Winter is far from over and there is more to come. I guess its a risk that some are prepared to take, and others not. Personally I would just prefer a flat rate, even if its a bit more.

 

I just don't see the point of being at work, receiving notification of high prices etc when there is little I can actually do.

 

Flick is a great idea, they can make far better by perhaps giving users the flexibility of switching between a fixed rate/spot prices whenever required.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is a great idea, it still is, nothing has changed. but I cannot believe your last phrase. You want the lowest price but not the risk that goes with that. Thats crazy and thats not the model they run and you subscribed to. Analogy is you don't want to pay insurance premiums. But if you need to claim, you will for that day.

 

You can:

 

Go to a fixed rate company, the highs and lows are managed for you

 

Pay the Flick bill and a bit more each payment, build up a buffer. Many do that themselves, many companies have an option to assess the annual average and you pay that. 

 

 

Actually there is a 3rd way - Self hedge. Which I do myself. How? - I have gas cooking, including oven + gas heating. Hot water is a 300L cylinder with solar. I also have a homemade waste oil boiler, that does hot water, radiator central heating, and spa heating. Also have 200AH of 12V battery storage, originally intended to keep my router, Wifi, fibre ONT ect powered up during powercuts. But it has also helped in the price spikes, by putting a timer on the battery charger. I can also run an inverter from it if prices get really crazy.

 

Im planning to upgrade the battery and inverter system as well as add solar PV to it. As since I have saved well over $1000 since joining Flick, I can spend a reasonable amount on "self hedging" measures.

 

For lots of other people, just having gas cooking and either a woodburner fire or even an unflued LPG heater will give plenty of hedging. And things that you do for price hedging also are very useful for disaster preparedness. So there are non financial benefits as well that you get from self hedging.






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  Reply # 1824114 18-Jul-2017 00:49
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The rate of posts in this thread seem to be correlated with the price of power, although maybe a quadratic across the mean price. ;)

 

The biggest limitation for Flick users is the small # of people on a floating price. If you had even just 10% of the country floating, they would have had the incentive to conserve at least something during the peaks, and probably would have had a reasonable impact on the peak prices. My understanding is that the price curve gets rather steep towards the 'top' so even a small reduction in demand would decrease prices substantially. Which is the real benefit of the price signalling.

 

The game changer of course would be something like a price forecast aware heat pump that preheats a little extra before the price spike and lets the house 'go low' a couple of degrees during the peak.  Nest & Ecobee are working with utilities here in the US to provide that. Floating also provides the price incentive for Aredwood's hedging/solar + batteries (my biggest gripe about net-metering). If that can be automated & packaged smartly...

 

Other thought: It's a pity Flick customer's can't fix a proportion of their usage. That is, offer something like a 50/50 fixed/float rate, so half your usage in any given price period is hedged. You could also do something like the free hour of power around fixing/floating - they must have the consumption data now to make that work. Though it would probably have to come at the cost of flick taking a bigger fee per KwH.


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  Reply # 1824130 18-Jul-2017 07:33
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k1wi:

 

The rate of posts in this thread seem to be correlated with the price of power, although maybe a quadratic across the mean price. ;)

 

The biggest limitation for Flick users is the small # of people on a floating price. If you had even just 10% of the country floating, they would have had the incentive to conserve at least something during the peaks, and probably would have had a reasonable impact on the peak prices. My understanding is that the price curve gets rather steep towards the 'top' so even a small reduction in demand would decrease prices substantially. Which is the real benefit of the price signalling.

 

The game changer of course would be something like a price forecast aware heat pump that preheats a little extra before the price spike and lets the house 'go low' a couple of degrees during the peak.  Nest & Ecobee are working with utilities here in the US to provide that. Floating also provides the price incentive for Aredwood's hedging/solar + batteries (my biggest gripe about net-metering). If that can be automated & packaged smartly...

 

Other thought: It's a pity Flick customer's can't fix a proportion of their usage. That is, offer something like a 50/50 fixed/float rate, so half your usage in any given price period is hedged. You could also do something like the free hour of power around fixing/floating - they must have the consumption data now to make that work. Though it would probably have to come at the cost of flick taking a bigger fee per KwH.

 

 

There is a level of incentive. People want to reduce the high winter power bills. I cant see everyone being on a spot price service and dealing with the recent event.

 

If Flick gave a part fixed rate, then off course you will pay a "normal" rate, and if that was 50/50, you halve the annual benefits of ;low spot prices as compared to fixed rates. But you cant expect Flick to charge you a fixed rate while you are chewing through spike spot prices.

 

Historically the recent issue is no big deal,. its been worse. Its normal. Its up to the subscriber to manage it. Conserve where you can, build up a buffer credit on your bill to cater for winter, and self hedging as @aredwood posted   But you cannot expect to get low low spot rates all year then Flick pick up the tab when it spikes.


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