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83 posts

Master Geek


  #1915033 8-Dec-2017 09:28
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tdgeek:

 

Would export rates increase pro rata when there is a price spike? They should do as the generation is more valuable then, but in todays world, I'd not be surpised if it stayed at 8c. I guess it depends if say Flick could use your power for their customers by way of a reduced price from the generators or whoever manages exported power

 

 

 

 

Aredwood earlier had indicated Flick intend to offer the wholesale rate, rather than the fixed ~8c rate that other retailers do.

 

 

3885 posts

Uber Geek


  #1915440 8-Dec-2017 21:04
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As above. But note that imported power will still be charged at wholesale + lines fees + EA levy + flick levy. While exported power will be paid at wholesale only. So in most cases it will still be better to self consume your solar production where possible. Instead of trying to export as much as possible.





83 posts

Master Geek


  #1915838 9-Dec-2017 21:48
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Aredwood: As above. But note that imported power will still be charged at wholesale + lines fees + EA levy + flick levy. While exported power will be paid at wholesale only. So in most cases it will still be better to self consume your solar production where possible. Instead of trying to export as much as possible.

 

 

 

But during a price spike you might want to defer some load, so you maximise export at high rates, and then run your heater or whatever later to consume back at lower rates.  This assumes short term spike type event - not a dry year all season high prices event.


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Uber Geek

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  #1915844 9-Dec-2017 22:20
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dantheperson:

 

Aredwood: As above. But note that imported power will still be charged at wholesale + lines fees + EA levy + flick levy. While exported power will be paid at wholesale only. So in most cases it will still be better to self consume your solar production where possible. Instead of trying to export as much as possible.

 

 

 

But during a price spike you might want to defer some load, so you maximise export at high rates, and then run your heater or whatever later to consume back at lower rates.  This assumes short term spike type event - not a dry year all season high prices event.

 

 

And, its summer, dry. We consume power at high rates, but we export power during the off-peak period, which I assume will be low, or lower rates? 

 

Same with winter, off peak is day time and work time.


145 posts

Master Geek


  #1921507 18-Dec-2017 20:52
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Does anyone in the Christchurch area (Orion) have a $0.02 surcharge on their Flick bill? This would appear to be an Orion peak charge, but does not actually match up with how Orion bill their peak charges through. 


3885 posts

Uber Geek


  #1921523 18-Dec-2017 21:27
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The Low user regulations mean that Flick are not allowed to directly pass on the Orion lines fees. If they did, it would be possible for someone on a standard user plan to get cheaper rates than low user, while remaining under the threshold. Flick would be breaking the law by directly offering The Orion price plans.

As a result, I don't understand how exactly Flick have calculated their charges. I suspect they are averaging the capacity charges across their customer base on the Orion network. And using their peak rates to recover those fees. And hoping that the high peak fees will encourage customers to reduce their peak demand.





145 posts

Master Geek


  #1921525 18-Dec-2017 21:40
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Aredwood: The Low user regulations mean that Flick are not allowed to directly pass on the Orion lines fees. If they did, it would be possible for someone on a standard user plan to get cheaper rates than low user, while remaining under the threshold. Flick would be breaking the law by directly offering The Orion price plans.

As a result, I don't understand how exactly Flick have calculated their charges. I suspect they are averaging the capacity charges across their customer base on the Orion network. And using their peak rates to recover those fees. And hoping that the high peak fees will encourage customers to reduce their peak demand.

 

 

 

Interesting, I'm on a standard user plan and have just started to get charged this fee - it has to be averaged over all their customers as i have one ICP which is a pump station, it is on a timer which is only used on non-peak times (and outside of Orion's peak winter charges) but is still charged this surcharge. 

 

i don't quite get why Flick would not, on standard users pass on the variable Orion peak charges on a 30 minute spot rate like the wholesale electricity spot rate, averaging it out on all their customers does not really incent one to decrease usage too much, and breaks their mantra of passing on raw wholesale costs (of course if this is what this is) 

 

its also billed on the total amount of power, so for example at night, on a day/night meter, if you are trying to shift usage to say 2am, you are still hit with a $0.02 surcharge which is really designed to recover peak usage.. seems flawed. 


9 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #1921527 18-Dec-2017 21:44
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pchs:

 

Does anyone in the Christchurch area (Orion) have a $0.02 surcharge on their Flick bill? This would appear to be an Orion peak charge, but does not actually match up with how Orion bill their peak charges through. 

 

 

there's a bit of explanation from Flick in the comments of this post

 

https://news.flickelectric.co.nz/2017/05/17/winter-electricity-pricing-for-canterbury-flicksters/


145 posts

Master Geek


  #1921528 18-Dec-2017 21:48
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JuanPerez:

 

pchs:

 

Does anyone in the Christchurch area (Orion) have a $0.02 surcharge on their Flick bill? This would appear to be an Orion peak charge, but does not actually match up with how Orion bill their peak charges through. 

 

 

there's a bit of explanation from Flick in the comments of this post

 

https://news.flickelectric.co.nz/2017/05/17/winter-electricity-pricing-for-canterbury-flicksters/

 

 

 

 

Thanks - however that does not explain the new surcharge that is on my bill, so keen to see if others have the same, they certainty increase the TOU lines charging that is explained in this article - so that all makes sense, but there is no mention of an additional ongoing charge which is charged 24/7/365 on all power consumed peak and off peak. 


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Uber Geek

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  #1921581 19-Dec-2017 07:07
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pchs:

 

JuanPerez:

 

pchs:

 

Does anyone in the Christchurch area (Orion) have a $0.02 surcharge on their Flick bill? This would appear to be an Orion peak charge, but does not actually match up with how Orion bill their peak charges through. 

 

 

there's a bit of explanation from Flick in the comments of this post

 

https://news.flickelectric.co.nz/2017/05/17/winter-electricity-pricing-for-canterbury-flicksters/

 

 

 

 

Thanks - however that does not explain the new surcharge that is on my bill, so keen to see if others have the same, they certainty increase the TOU lines charging that is explained in this article - so that all makes sense, but there is no mention of an additional ongoing charge which is charged 24/7/365 on all power consumed peak and off peak. 

 

 

There's something of an explanation in the comments section, although they suggest it's 'new' as of mid this year


145 posts

Master Geek


  #1921588 19-Dec-2017 07:38
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nickb800:

 

pchs:

 

JuanPerez:

 

pchs:

 

Does anyone in the Christchurch area (Orion) have a $0.02 surcharge on their Flick bill? This would appear to be an Orion peak charge, but does not actually match up with how Orion bill their peak charges through. 

 

 

there's a bit of explanation from Flick in the comments of this post

 

https://news.flickelectric.co.nz/2017/05/17/winter-electricity-pricing-for-canterbury-flicksters/

 

 

 

 

Thanks - however that does not explain the new surcharge that is on my bill, so keen to see if others have the same, they certainty increase the TOU lines charging that is explained in this article - so that all makes sense, but there is no mention of an additional ongoing charge which is charged 24/7/365 on all power consumed peak and off peak. 

 

 

There's something of an explanation in the comments section, although they suggest it's 'new' as of mid this year

 

 

Ah Ok that makes sense, so they are averaging this over all their customers, I just think this is a bit disingenuous when they say its a direct charge applied by Orion, for example this charge wont apply to my usage (from an Network/Orion point of view) as I don't use power in their peak periods (I have a battery system so power shift and completely isolate from the grid in Orion's peak) but am still charged the $0.02 surcharge across non-peak kWh used. 

 

I think it would make sense to pass on the demand charges per customer rather than averaging over their total customers if they want to claim this is transparent and directly passing through costs. apart from that comment on the blog its not anywhere else on their website (and contradicts their previous post where they claim it wont affect off peak) 

 

 


175 posts

Master Geek


  #1921590 19-Dec-2017 07:51
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The issue is the way Orion bill the retailers.

 

First of all they bill at the GXP level, which means it is impossible to see in their invoices where a specific customer sits in their charges. Secondly, they send a proforma invoice out the month before and then the are wash ups sent out every three months. As someone who has had to reconcile these invoices in the past it was something I hated with a passion.

 

It's probably easier now with smart meters but whilst Orion keep billing at GXP level it is a nightmare for the retailer and takes quite a bit of manpower to figure out.


222 posts

Master Geek


  #1941897 18-Jan-2018 10:54
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Buckle in, it could be an interesting couple of months

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11973117

 

 


115 posts

Master Geek


  #1941908 18-Jan-2018 11:04
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I know it's a bit unrelated, but it's still relevant :-D 

 

given that one has a smart meter do you still need to install a ripple control to be able to use controlled plans? (for a hot water cylinder)

 

My guess is that the smart meter should be able to do that, but the electrician does not agree :-S


1990 posts

Uber Geek

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  #1941930 18-Jan-2018 11:35
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That article is a week old and Flick sent out an email last week addressing it with their thoughts...





CPU: Intel 3770k| RAM: F3-2400C10D-16GTX G.Skill Trident X |MB:  Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H-WB | GFX: GV-N660OC-2GD gv-n660oc-2gd GeForce GTX 660 | Monitor: Qnix 27" 2560x1440

 

 


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