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323 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1914888 7-Dec-2017 23:01
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dantheperson: I get confused by all the units. So what would the current $183.82/MWh rate work out at. 18.3 cents /KWh? (less flicks margin)



Yes, that is the wholesale cost of power.

On your flick bill, they give you the weighted (by your time of use) average price per unit (no mark-up), and multiply by your use.

A bunch of costs get added to this.

As an example (lines costs based on Central Auckland, Standard user):

 

 

 

Variable costs:

 

- Wholesale electricity:    11.8867 c/kWh

 

- Lines fees (vairable):     5.65 c/kWh

 

- Flick margin (vairable):  1.5 c/kWh

 

- EA Levy:                       0.113 c/kWh


 

Fixed costs:

 

- Network Daily Charge:    101 c/Day

 

- Metering daily charge:     21.66 c/Day

 

- Flick Margin (daily):         40 c/day

All plus GST.


For comparison Meridian's summer special for Auckland central is (13.68 c/kWh + 163.35 c/day + GST )

 


Clearly Meridian's price is a better deal under current wholesale conditions (very low hydro inflows (not much snowpack in the south, so this is likely to continue), major gas plant out for maintenance)

Unless there is a lot of rain in key south island catchments, despite my love of flick, I would recommend giving Flick a miss this summer. The major retailers either control a lot of their generation, or have entered into hedging agreements to control their exposure to high wholesale prices, something flick customer don't have access to.

A lot of the talk with wholesale prices with flick revolves around dealing with price spikes (say due to an equipment outage). Remember there is other situation is an extended period of $180 - $300 / MWh power prices for many weeks. (happened in summer 2011/2012 i think, I was working at a power company at the time).


54 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 5


  Reply # 1914994 8-Dec-2017 08:13
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Scott3:

 

A lot of the talk with wholesale prices with flick revolves around dealing with price spikes (say due to an equipment outage). Remember there is other situation is an extended period of $180 - $300 / MWh power prices for many weeks. (happened in summer 2011/2012 i think, I was working at a power company at the time).

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that, i was thinking about the solar export option, in which case price spikes is something you want exposure too. 

 

You'd have the same problem though, you'd be wanting to go around the house turning everything off to maximise your export.


 
 
 
 


96 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1914998 8-Dec-2017 08:22
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Fun fact: if everybody from this topic makes an extra 1 paid hours once - you'd cover their potential losses from flick for {years,a year} (depending on your hour rate).


10191 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1915006 8-Dec-2017 08:31
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dantheperson:

 

Scott3:

 

A lot of the talk with wholesale prices with flick revolves around dealing with price spikes (say due to an equipment outage). Remember there is other situation is an extended period of $180 - $300 / MWh power prices for many weeks. (happened in summer 2011/2012 i think, I was working at a power company at the time).

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that, i was thinking about the solar export option, in which case price spikes is something you want exposure too. 

 

You'd have the same problem though, you'd be wanting to go around the house turning everything off to maximise your export.

 

 

Would export rates increase pro rata when there is a price spike? They should do as the generation is more valuable then, but in todays world, I'd not be surpised if it stayed at 8c. I guess it depends if say Flick could use your power for their customers by way of a reduced price from the generators or whoever manages exported power


54 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1915033 8-Dec-2017 09:28
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tdgeek:

 

Would export rates increase pro rata when there is a price spike? They should do as the generation is more valuable then, but in todays world, I'd not be surpised if it stayed at 8c. I guess it depends if say Flick could use your power for their customers by way of a reduced price from the generators or whoever manages exported power

 

 

 

 

Aredwood earlier had indicated Flick intend to offer the wholesale rate, rather than the fixed ~8c rate that other retailers do.

 

 

2039 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1915440 8-Dec-2017 21:04
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As above. But note that imported power will still be charged at wholesale + lines fees + EA levy + flick levy. While exported power will be paid at wholesale only. So in most cases it will still be better to self consume your solar production where possible. Instead of trying to export as much as possible.





54 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1915838 9-Dec-2017 21:48
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Aredwood: As above. But note that imported power will still be charged at wholesale + lines fees + EA levy + flick levy. While exported power will be paid at wholesale only. So in most cases it will still be better to self consume your solar production where possible. Instead of trying to export as much as possible.

 

 

 

But during a price spike you might want to defer some load, so you maximise export at high rates, and then run your heater or whatever later to consume back at lower rates.  This assumes short term spike type event - not a dry year all season high prices event.


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1915844 9-Dec-2017 22:20
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dantheperson:

 

Aredwood: As above. But note that imported power will still be charged at wholesale + lines fees + EA levy + flick levy. While exported power will be paid at wholesale only. So in most cases it will still be better to self consume your solar production where possible. Instead of trying to export as much as possible.

 

 

 

But during a price spike you might want to defer some load, so you maximise export at high rates, and then run your heater or whatever later to consume back at lower rates.  This assumes short term spike type event - not a dry year all season high prices event.

 

 

And, its summer, dry. We consume power at high rates, but we export power during the off-peak period, which I assume will be low, or lower rates? 

 

Same with winter, off peak is day time and work time.


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