Time to give electricity the flick?

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Time to give electricity the flick?

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100 posts

Master Geek

#1985446 29-Mar-2018 15:04

Just to clarify that the Orion/Christchurch winter peak surcharge only applies between 7am-10am and 5pm-7pm weekdays, between 1 May and 31 August. Offpeak times, such as night rate (9pm-7am) and weekends aren't affected.

Mind you, that winter peak surcharge still hurts, I just try and minimise usage during those hours.

Yes at times when you need electricity the most. When May comes, watch very closely and see how much the price jumps outside these peak hours. I know last year when we were with Flick, I got a shock at how expensive the kW rate was. Then things got really bad reaching on a daily basis where the rate was consistently over $1/kW/hr during those peak hours. A time when we were with Genesis the winter bill was about $280, it worked out with Flick an avg monthly price of $450/month.

It also seems the savings still apply this past 2 months. My last bill with Genesis was under $100. While with Flick in January it was about $150 (50% higher, which seems to match the 50% extra cost we suffered 2017 winter months).

gchiu

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#1985453 29-Mar-2018 15:12

Anyone have a rough idea what a new pole connection costs. I'm building a 50 m2 flat at the rear of the section and it's either a new connection, or, going to load shifting so that the two houses combined don't exceed the pole fuse rated at 63 amps.

voy1d

176 posts

Master Geek

#1985505 29-Mar-2018 17:16

gchiu: Anyone have a rough idea what a new pole connection costs. I'm building a 50 m2 flat at the rear of the section and it's either a new connection, or, going to load shifting so that the two houses combined don't exceed the pole fuse rated at 63 amps.

Are you planning on renting it out? If so, please for the love of god get a new connection and line run from the street.

It will make everything significantly easier for the tenant and you. If you still choose not to, make sure you read the tenancy rules around charging power usage carefully.

gchiu

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#1985544 29-Mar-2018 17:58

Not renting out. Daughter will be living there. Reckon will need a pole sunk in the ground on our side of the street as well, and string it across the street to the power pole.

luckiestmanalive

54 posts

Master Geek

#1987490 3-Apr-2018 10:58

gchiu: Anyone have a rough idea what a new pole connection costs. I'm building a 50 m2 flat at the rear of the section and it's either a new connection, or, going to load shifting so that the two houses combined don't exceed the pole fuse rated at 63 amps.

Threadcrapping, dude! If it has nothing to do with Flick as a retail option then start a new topic!

michaelmurfy

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#1987519 3-Apr-2018 11:11

Agreed. Keep it on topic guys... There is many people watching this thread so if it isn't related to Flick then start a new topic.

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gchiu

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#1987813 3-Apr-2018 18:29

luckiestmanalive:

gchiu: Anyone have a rough idea what a new pole connection costs. I'm building a 50 m2 flat at the rear of the section and it's either a new connection, or, going to load shifting so that the two houses combined don't exceed the pole fuse rated at 63 amps.

Threadcrapping, dude! If it has nothing to do with Flick as a retail option then start a new topic!

Crapping in my own thread? LOL

Seems to me to be on topic since Flick lead the paradigm change in the way that power was charged, and is now experimenting at buying back power from home solar generators. Batteries now come into the equation, and the costs of new connections for infill housing need to be factored in as well. All of these options are going to affect the price we get charged.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#1987828 3-Apr-2018 19:07

Sorry @gchiu but this definitely needs a new thread. As when it comes to new power connections to the network, your lines company decides what you can and cannot do. Flick (and you) have to play by their rules. Same as for every other power retailer and customer.

Some lines companies also have rules around things like stoves, hot water cylinders, motors, number of phases that you have, load control etc. All of which can massively affect what you want to do, and the cost.

Start a new thread, say which lines company you are under. And tag me in it.

luckiestmanalive

54 posts

Master Geek

#1988097 4-Apr-2018 10:56

gchiu:

I used to see power rates at about 5c/kWh at night but these last few days it seems to be the same regardless of time, about $13/kWh.

I was wondering whether it's economic with Flick, or another supplier that offers off-peak pricing, to do load balancing by getting in batteries to charge at off peak rates and use them during peak rates.

I gather from one of the solar suppliers that the Tesla Powerwall 2 is the only one which can be charged by AC.

Anyone have any insight into this?

Batteries are of much lower value in New Zealand compared to other countries (Oz, for example) because the hydro lakes already operate like a big battery when storage is within their desired operating range (ie around average storage levels for the time of year). That is why you don't see much difference in spot prices day or night - if Meridian has to use a particular volume of water during the day and has some flexibility around when it can do so, it makes sense for it to generate more when prices are higher and less when they are lower and this causes prices to converge.

dantheperson

94 posts

Master Geek

#1988174 4-Apr-2018 13:07

luckiestmanalive:

Batteries are of much lower value in New Zealand compared to other countries (Oz, for example) because the hydro lakes already operate like a big battery when storage is within their desired operating range (ie around average storage levels for the time of year). That is why you don't see much difference in spot prices day or night - if Meridian has to use a particular volume of water during the day and has some flexibility around when it can do so, it makes sense for it to generate more when prices are higher and less when they are lower and this causes prices to converge.

If that were the case, then wouldn't their be no point in switching to Flick to take advantage of load shifting?

Do you have any good data for this? If i look today, in Upper north it looks like a overnight low of about $20/MWh at 02:30 and a peak about $100 around 20:00 yesterday (Otahuhu on electricityinfo shows peak of $110 and low of 21 RTP)

In Oz meanwhile, QLD sees a low of $38 and a peak of 98.98 18:00 yesterday.

So i would say today at least, batteries would be slightly more effective here than in Oz,

http://www.em6live.co.nz/PlanningRegion.aspx?planningregion=uni

https://www.aemo.com.au/Electricity/National-Electricity-Market-NEM/Data-dashboard#price-demand

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#1988207 4-Apr-2018 13:50

You also need to consider wear on the batteries due to constant charge and discharge cycles. And the effect of lines fees on your pricing. Batteries only make sense when you need them for backup power purposes. Unless you are on a capacity based pricing plan, and you can program the controller to charge and discharge the battery to reduce your capacity costs.

Bigger savings are possible just from using a hot water cylinder as a battery.

luckiestmanalive

54 posts

Master Geek

#1988220 4-Apr-2018 14:29

Of course it depends on the day and the state (QLD has lower price volatility than South Australia, for example) and lake storage levels.

I just looked at 30-minute prices in each state in the last quarter and the standard deviation ranges from $15/MWh in NSW to $475/MWh in South Australia. In comparison, the standard deviation for demand-weighted price in the North Island in the same period was $46/MWh and $52/MWh for the South Island.

gchiu

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#1988346 4-Apr-2018 19:22

Since we have all the pricing data from flick, and usage data as well, if we had comparable local panel generation data we should be able to calculate whether going panels/batteries, with top up as necessary overnight is ever going to be viable. The Tesla battery is warranted for 10 years.

heapsort

231 posts

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#1994534 12-Apr-2018 06:02

I learned yesterday that Flick has a new tool called a "Volt" (ha!) that lets you stash away extra payments to smooth out the peaks. Simply set two values - a regular weekly bill spend, and a threshold at which stashed Volt money will be used where possible - and they can be changed any time.

I probably won't use this because even with the low lake level peaks last year my maximum 2017 weekly bill was only 2.5 times the median bill, and I've got an annual budget that already anticipates higher winter electricity spending, but I can see it would be very useful for some people.

voy1d

176 posts

Master Geek

#1994535 12-Apr-2018 06:16

Fyi, for those interested and following this.

Morning peak prices are coming through around $180 - $200 with the trading period starting 0800 currently sitting at $2,000.

The drivers are cause it's been a significant drop in temperature and all the Auckland load returning from the storm you're now seeing everyone turn everything on.

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