Just checking that this DIY electrical connection is not allowed?

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Just checking that this DIY electrical connection is not allowed?

1 | 2 | 3

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1199265 17-Dec-2014 15:44

mdooher:
KiwiNZ: personally I would not do it....

1. safety would not want to see love ones zapped.
2. If it goes wrong and causes a fire your Insurance will probably be void.

Why would his insurance be void for something he is legally entitled to do? that's what insurance is for.

My understanding is that this work will need to be checked by a registered electrician before going live, the OP has said there is none available therefore assumption is the power supply will be turned on before being checked. The Insurance company would be well in its rights to decline any claim resulting from that installation.

richms

28060 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1199267 17-Dec-2014 15:48

DarthKermit: What do you find difficult about pic uploading on here? I've uploaded dozens so far.

Have to resize it down so the site will accept it. PITA to do on a phone.

Richard rich.ms

mdooher

Hmm, what to write...
1420 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1199275 17-Dec-2014 15:59

KiwiNZ:
mdooher:
KiwiNZ: personally I would not do it....

1. safety would not want to see love ones zapped.
2. If it goes wrong and causes a fire your Insurance will probably be void.

Why would his insurance be void for something he is legally entitled to do? that's what insurance is for.

My understanding is that this work will need to be checked by a registered electrician before going live, the OP has said there is none available therefore assumption is the power supply will be turned on before being checked. The Insurance company would be well in its rights to decline any claim resulting from that installation.

As I have said a few times he may liven his own work.

The following is from the Electrical Safety Regulations (I've cut some bits out)

Exemption for domestic electrical wiring work

(1) A person who carries out prescribed electrical work in reliance on the exemption in section 79 of the Act (exemption for domestic electrical wiring work) must carry it out, and test the work, in accordance with ECP 51.
.
.
.

(3) The work to which subclause (2) relates is any of the following:
- (a) removing and replacing fuse links:
- (b) connecting and disconnecting fixed-wired appliances:
- (c) relocating existing switches, socket-outlets, and lighting outlets that are supplied with electricity by tough plastic-sheathed cables:
- (d) removing and replacing any of the following kinds of fittings (but only if the work does not involve work on a switchboard):
  - (i) switches, socket-outlets, and light fittings:
  - (ii) permanent connection units, ceiling roses, cord-grip lampholders, and flexible cords connected to any of them:
  - (iii) batten holders:
  - (iv) water heater switches:
  - (v) thermostats:
  - (vi) elements:

Matthew

wellygary

8261 posts

Uber Geek

#1199278 17-Dec-2014 16:01

From this , I would say he is legal to do what he is proposing,

http://www.med.govt.nz/energysafety/consumer/safe-living-with-electricity/getting-electrical-work-done/doing-your-own-electrical-work

What electrical work can I do?

-You must own and live in the property to do the following work on low voltage electrical installations (when there is no payment or reward):

.....

-Connect and disconnect fixed wired appliances.

- According to the Regs low voltage is anything under 1500VAC,

richms

28060 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1199279 17-Dec-2014 16:02

But is it an appliance? There is a definition of that as well.

Richard rich.ms

mdooher

Hmm, what to write...
1420 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1199283 17-Dec-2014 16:04

richms: But is it an appliance? There is a definition of that as well.

an electrical appliance is a device that converts electrical energy into another form...like heat

Matthew

wellygary

8261 posts

Uber Geek

#1199284 17-Dec-2014 16:04

richms: But is it an appliance? There is a definition of that as well.

appliance means an electrical appliance as defined in section 2(1) of the Act

electrical appliance means any appliance that uses, or is designed or intended to use, electricity, whether or not it also uses, or is designed or intended to use, any other form of energy

fairly sure an oven/range fits that definiation :)

Mighty Ape

Shop now on Mighty Ape (affiliate link).

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1199285 17-Dec-2014 16:05

mdooher:
KiwiNZ:
mdooher:
KiwiNZ: personally I would not do it....

1. safety would not want to see love ones zapped.
2. If it goes wrong and causes a fire your Insurance will probably be void.

Why would his insurance be void for something he is legally entitled to do? that's what insurance is for.

My understanding is that this work will need to be checked by a registered electrician before going live, the OP has said there is none available therefore assumption is the power supply will be turned on before being checked. The Insurance company would be well in its rights to decline any claim resulting from that installation.

As I have said a few times he may liven his own work.

The following is from the Electrical Safety Regulations (I've cut some bits out)

Exemption for domestic electrical wiring work

(1) A person who carries out prescribed electrical work in reliance on the exemption in section 79 of the Act (exemption for domestic electrical wiring work) must carry it out, and test the work, in accordance with ECP 51.
.
.
. (3) The work to which subclause (2) relates is any of the following:

(a) removing and replacing fuse links:

(b) connecting and disconnecting fixed-wired appliances:

(c) relocating existing switches, socket-outlets, and lighting outlets that are supplied with electricity by tough plastic-sheathed cables:

(d) removing and replacing any of the following kinds of fittings (but only if the work does not involve work on a switchboard):

(i) switches, socket-outlets, and light fittings:

(ii) permanent connection units, ceiling roses, cord-grip lampholders, and flexible cords connected to any of them:

(iii) batten holders:

(iv) water heater switches:

(v) thermostats:

(vi) elements:

Does this apply to replacing the older direct wired to installing a a wall outlet and plug to the range ? As the plug is a "new" installation I have been told that they now need RCD protection something the existing installation is unlikely to have.
I may well be completely wrong just going by what I have been told by various tradesmen

mdooher

Hmm, what to write...
1420 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1199287 17-Dec-2014 16:07

KiwiNZ:
mdooher:
KiwiNZ:
mdooher:
KiwiNZ: personally I would not do it....

1. safety would not want to see love ones zapped.
2. If it goes wrong and causes a fire your Insurance will probably be void.

Why would his insurance be void for something he is legally entitled to do? that's what insurance is for.

My understanding is that this work will need to be checked by a registered electrician before going live, the OP has said there is none available therefore assumption is the power supply will be turned on before being checked. The Insurance company would be well in its rights to decline any claim resulting from that installation.

As I have said a few times he may liven his own work.

The following is from the Electrical Safety Regulations (I've cut some bits out)

Exemption for domestic electrical wiring work

(1) A person who carries out prescribed electrical work in reliance on the exemption in section 79 of the Act (exemption for domestic electrical wiring work) must carry it out, and test the work, in accordance with ECP 51.
.
.
. (3) The work to which subclause (2) relates is any of the following:

(a) removing and replacing fuse links:

(b) connecting and disconnecting fixed-wired appliances:

(c) relocating existing switches, socket-outlets, and lighting outlets that are supplied with electricity by tough plastic-sheathed cables:

(d) removing and replacing any of the following kinds of fittings (but only if the work does not involve work on a switchboard):

(i) switches, socket-outlets, and light fittings:

(ii) permanent connection units, ceiling roses, cord-grip lampholders, and flexible cords connected to any of them:

(iii) batten holders:

(iv) water heater switches:

(v) thermostats:

(vi) elements:

Does this apply to replacing the older direct wired to installing a a wall outlet and plug to the range ? As the plug is a "new" installation I have been told that they now need RCD protection something the existing installation is unlikely to have.
I may well be completely wrong just going by what I have been told by various tradesmen

yes because you are to install a socket outlet for the range...see above (one proviso...there needs to be some kind of connector already on the wall...actually electricians and inspectors argue about this exact thing all the time...is it removing and replacing)

and a range does not require an RCD

Matthew

richms

28060 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1199296 17-Dec-2014 16:16

Hows that work when there are 10A sockets on the range like some older ones have? Never got why they allowed those as that means its way easy to trip out the range circuit when you plug a couple of appliances into the range

Richard rich.ms

mdooher

Hmm, what to write...
1420 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1199298 17-Dec-2014 16:17

A couple of things I haven't said...
If you don't really know what you are doing...get an electrician
If the oven you are replacing was a smaller one...get an electrician
If you want to put a proper new style plug on the wall...get an electrician
If you don't own or know how to use a multimeter... get an electrician

I've sent a PM and assuming the job is reasonably simple I'll do it for free (well maybe a beer when I finish)...this week

Matthew

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1199300 17-Dec-2014 16:19

mdooher:
KiwiNZ:
mdooher:
KiwiNZ:
mdooher:
KiwiNZ: personally I would not do it....

1. safety would not want to see love ones zapped.
2. If it goes wrong and causes a fire your Insurance will probably be void.

Why would his insurance be void for something he is legally entitled to do? that's what insurance is for.

My understanding is that this work will need to be checked by a registered electrician before going live, the OP has said there is none available therefore assumption is the power supply will be turned on before being checked. The Insurance company would be well in its rights to decline any claim resulting from that installation.

As I have said a few times he may liven his own work.

The following is from the Electrical Safety Regulations (I've cut some bits out)

Exemption for domestic electrical wiring work

(1) A person who carries out prescribed electrical work in reliance on the exemption in section 79 of the Act (exemption for domestic electrical wiring work) must carry it out, and test the work, in accordance with ECP 51.
.
.
. (3) The work to which subclause (2) relates is any of the following:

(a) removing and replacing fuse links:

(b) connecting and disconnecting fixed-wired appliances:

(c) relocating existing switches, socket-outlets, and lighting outlets that are supplied with electricity by tough plastic-sheathed cables:

(d) removing and replacing any of the following kinds of fittings (but only if the work does not involve work on a switchboard):

(i) switches, socket-outlets, and light fittings:

(ii) permanent connection units, ceiling roses, cord-grip lampholders, and flexible cords connected to any of them:

(iii) batten holders:

(iv) water heater switches:

(v) thermostats:

(vi) elements:

Does this apply to replacing the older direct wired to installing a a wall outlet and plug to the range ? As the plug is a "new" installation I have been told that they now need RCD protection something the existing installation is unlikely to have.
I may well be completely wrong just going by what I have been told by various tradesmen

yes because you are to install a socket outlet for the range...see above (one proviso...there needs to be some kind of connector already on the wall...actually electricians and inspectors argue about this exact thing all the time...is it removing and replacing)

and a range does not require an RCD

Cool, thanks for that info , good to know when we upgrade our Kitchen next year

mdooher

Hmm, what to write...
1420 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1199302 17-Dec-2014 16:22

richms: Hows that work when there are 10A sockets on the range like some older ones have? Never got why they allowed those as that means its way easy to trip out the range circuit when you plug a couple of appliances into the range

yes we know.... but hey, a couple of non RDC protected socket outlets are really handy

Matthew

Niel

3267 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1199342 17-Dec-2014 16:49

One thing I don't see in the replies is that you can only replace like for like. For example you cannot change from a recessed down light to a pendant light (or the other way round). AFAIK you are also not allowed to relocate a fitting or wiring. To me this means that no, you cannot change from fixed wiring to socketed wiring (unless the socket is in-line, which has stricter compliance standards than a wall socket).

You can never have enough Volvos!

mdooher

Hmm, what to write...
1420 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1199351 17-Dec-2014 17:06

Niel: One thing I don't see in the replies is that you can only replace like for like. For example you cannot change from a recessed down light to a pendant light (or the other way round). AFAIK you are also not allowed to relocate a fitting or wiring. To me this means that no, you cannot change from fixed wiring to socketed wiring (unless the socket is in-line, which has stricter compliance standards than a wall socket).

Um, if you re-read section 3 (c) of ESR above you will see you can relocate fittings.

Also there is no longer any requirement for like for like replacement

Matthew

1 | 2 | 3