Low cost effective heating for bedrooms

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#1262168 19-Mar-2015 10:14

Niel: I just realized you said "new born". Let baby sleep with you, everyone will be happier. Our daughter was 6 weeks prem, slept with us for about 4-5 months. Our son was 3 weeks prem, slept with us for a couple of months. Much easier for my wife to do feeding, and then I'd let the baby sleep on my chest to give my wife a rest. Everyone was happy and more relaxed. We did try separation, but it did not feel right and baby was stressed.

the room air temperature still needs to suitable no matter where they sleep.

Also it's strongly advised not to co-sleep, even with one of those special cusions to stop them moving around
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/8759809/Co-sleeping-baby-deaths-like-an-epidemic-says-coroner

Ps, off-topic.

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#1262197 19-Mar-2015 10:30

That's opening a can of worms. Not that simple that a one line statement can cover.

Niel

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#1263577 19-Mar-2015 17:18

MadEngineer:
Niel: I just realized you said "new born". Let baby sleep with you, everyone will be happier. Our daughter was 6 weeks prem, slept with us for about 4-5 months. Our son was 3 weeks prem, slept with us for a couple of months. Much easier for my wife to do feeding, and then I'd let the baby sleep on my chest to give my wife a rest. Everyone was happy and more relaxed. We did try separation, but it did not feel right and baby was stressed.
the room air temperature still needs to suitable no matter where they sleep.

Also it's strongly advised not to co-sleep, even with one of those special cusions to stop them moving around
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/8759809/Co-sleeping-baby-deaths-like-an-epidemic-says-coroner

Ps, off-topic.

The topic is about cost effectively heating a room for a baby. For us it was cost effective when our daughter got warmth from sleeping on my chest.

NZ has social issues which result in the coroner's statement, I'd expect geeks to be wiser than the general public.

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#1263716 19-Mar-2015 22:03

Hi Everyone, the topic was not about heating a room for baby, but how to affordably (on a low income) heat the second part of the home (at night mainly), the home being L or T shaped is probably better to describe, the 3 bedrooms get severe condensation to the point bath towels have to be in the windowsills at night (during winter and they are sopping wet), so how do I warm affordably and deal with the condensation and of the house to an acceptable level for everyone (baby will be child number 5 one of the older children is asthmatic) but without meaning I have to take out a mortgage to pay the power bill so to speak as this winter income will be reduced while on leave with baby.

The baby is only a side matter of being more aware of having a newborn (all the other children are primary and high school age), and the need of keeping a stable temperature at night at that end of the house. But to be fair I need to address it for all the children not just one.

Closing my bedroom door with a heater, having baby sleep with me etc wont address the severe condensation issue in the bedrooms or deal with the fact that the other children will be freezing their butts off, being in a rental that's just been renovated, new carpets and curtains I want to prevent damage AND look at long term options year after year that will keep the bedrooms at a healthy level suitable for children and asthmatics.

So far the cost issue is still going to be there, obviously I am willing to pay more over winter for power just not 400 or more a month and I am not expecting t-shirt heat but just healthy and dry but not overdry.

Dehumidifier is one, but a cheap form of heating that will take the chill off the bedrooms which unfortunately are on the cold side of the house is what I am trying to work out as to being the cheapest form to heat a large area being 3 bedrooms.

Insulation was checked a few days ago and its "near new". Landlord having just spent thousands on the renovations and has no intention of further outlays at this point in time.

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#1263731 19-Mar-2015 22:44

I remember some good stuff on condensation and heating in threads like these. I haven't had time to read them all but there could be something there that helps you:
Ventilation system paired with heat pump/heat transfer system? is more relevant to you
Positive Pressure or Balanced Pressure ventilation system? was a further questions from the same OP

Condensation / warmth in a rental

Room humidifier problems over-drying the air and need to humidify

It might be an advantage to get on a power plan with the best, i.e. lowest, night rate. That means that you can heat (and dehumidify or whatever) more cheaply when everyone is asleep.

Niel

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#1263732 19-Mar-2015 23:00

A Mitsubishi dehumidifier (quiet) in the hallway plus 5-fin heaters in each bedroom set to low temperature. The Mitsubishi dehumidifier is relatively expensive, but worth it. Put the heaters on cheap mains timers to only turn on during the night. Get the kids electric blankets, preferably ones with room temperature sensors, and run them also off timers.

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#1264293 20-Mar-2015 19:41

Babies can't turn off electric blankets when they get too hot.

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#1264323 20-Mar-2015 21:08

he did say kids, not baby

she has 4 other kids

Aredwood

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#1264383 21-Mar-2015 00:21

Mumx5: Hi Everyone, the topic was not about heating a room for baby, but how to affordably (on a low income) heat the second part of the home (at night mainly), the home being L or T shaped is probably better to describe, the 3 bedrooms get severe condensation to the point bath towels have to be in the windowsills at night (during winter and they are sopping wet), so how do I warm affordably and deal with the condensation and of the house to an acceptable level for everyone (baby will be child number 5 one of the older children is asthmatic) but without meaning I have to take out a mortgage to pay the power bill so to speak as this winter income will be reduced while on leave with baby.

The baby is only a side matter of being more aware of having a newborn (all the other children are primary and high school age), and the need of keeping a stable temperature at night at that end of the house. But to be fair I need to address it for all the children not just one.

Closing my bedroom door with a heater, having baby sleep with me etc wont address the severe condensation issue in the bedrooms or deal with the fact that the other children will be freezing their butts off, being in a rental that's just been renovated, new carpets and curtains I want to prevent damage AND look at long term options year after year that will keep the bedrooms at a healthy level suitable for children and asthmatics.

So far the cost issue is still going to be there, obviously I am willing to pay more over winter for power just not 400 or more a month and I am not expecting t-shirt heat but just healthy and dry but not overdry.

Dehumidifier is one, but a cheap form of heating that will take the chill off the bedrooms which unfortunately are on the cold side of the house is what I am trying to work out as to being the cheapest form to heat a large area being 3 bedrooms.

Insulation was checked a few days ago and its "near new". Landlord having just spent thousands on the renovations and has no intention of further outlays at this point in time.

Because of your condensation problems a dehumidifier is absolutely essential for you. Since you already have 5 people in the house. (6 if you have a partner) which will then be 7 when baby arrives. All of those people breathing will be alot of moisture. Then add in the extra showering, cooking, drying clothes ect. Opening the windows is a very expensive way of drying the house if you are letting warm air escape. And depending on the tempature / humidity outside might not make much difference anyway. Here is a picture that explains the relationship between relative humidity. (which varies with temperature) And the actual amount of water that is in the air

In this example, if the air is cooled to less than 10deg (or things like the surface of windows are colder than 10 deg) then condensation will start to form. Even though the humidity level was pretty much ideal at 20deg. This is why ventilating the house during the day often doesn't help to reduce condensation at night.

Also heatpumps can only dehumidify when used for aircon (cooling). So the heatpump won't be any help in removing moisture during winter. (but will help only by keeping the house warmer)

So a good quality dehumidifier should be top of your shopping list. The heaters will then be used to just "top up" the heat from the dehumidifier.

And although it doesn't seem right - place the heaters in the coldest part of the room. Which for most rooms will be directly underneath the windows. To understand why, first imagine a room with no heater. The cold window glass cools down the air next to it. Which sinks to the floor. More air moves down to take it's place. And you then have a circulating air current going: Window to floor, along floor to opposite wall. Up wall to ceiling, along to ceiling to outside wall, And then back to window. Now place a heater against the wall opposite the window. The heater will cause this air current to speed up. The moving air will feel colder. The temperature will vary in different parts of the room. And the thermostat in the heater won't be able to respond as well to different heat loads (how cold it is outside).

Move the heater so it is now under the window. It's convection current cancels out the one from the window. The thermostat can now maintain a more accurate air temperature. A stable air temp is more comfortable than one that is constantly changing. This allows you to "get away" with heating the room to a lower temp than you otherwise would. And still consider the heatermate and "fan on top of the heater" as well.

lissie

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#1264633 21-Mar-2015 17:17

Maybe I'm missing something - but I've lived in plenty of drafty, uninsulated houses, including Central Otago in the winter. You open the windows and air the house during the day (when it's not raining). At night you leave the windows slightly open in the rooms that people are sleeping in if necessary. I see a dehumidifier as a solution only if for some reason you can't ever air out the house.

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#1264642 21-Mar-2015 18:03

lissie: Maybe I'm missing something - but I've lived in plenty of drafty, uninsulated houses, including Central Otago in the winter. You open the windows and air the house during the day (when it's not raining). At night you leave the windows slightly open in the rooms that people are sleeping in if necessary. I see a dehumidifier as a solution only if for some reason you can't ever air out the house.

I use an aircon/dehumidifier and keep windows closed because Auckland average humidity is such that otherwise I get constant ear infections and tonsillitis. The first year after migrating here I had to take 17 days sick leave. Fortunately my boss was impressed with my work so was happy as long as I did something about it. Central Otago is considered to have low humidity and low risk of mould, with average Winter rainfall often lower than Summer.

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#1264646 21-Mar-2015 18:12

Cant air during the day typically as people are out. Draughts will cause alarm triggers and there is the matter of leaving windows unlocked and open on stays, which in their own instructions advise are not suitable to secure an unoccupied house.

Leave the window open at night when its 2-3degrees outside and 20 inside and you are pushing a hell of a lot of heat out to the world.

Richard rich.ms

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#1264778 21-Mar-2015 23:43

Jase2985: he did say kids, not baby

she has 4 other kids

ah I missed that. the original post said new baby that's on the way.

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pctek

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#1272773 29-Mar-2015 11:39

I am expecting a baby in the middle of winter (july) I need to really address keeping that end of the house warmer.

Babies can overheat very quickly.

Really baby in bed is warm enough. Baby not in bed, move baby to lounge.

Condensation is caused by sealing the place up like a sealed plastic bag.

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#1272810 29-Mar-2015 12:39

pctek:

Condensation is caused by sealing the place up like a sealed plastic bag.

The house described isn't sealed like a plastic bag, the condensation results from lack of a heat source in affected areas. I live in similar house without wall insulation and single glazing, you can sit on the floor in any room and feel the draft so it certainly isn't sealed. Condensation roles down the windows in winter to varying degree dependent on on what temperature the room is heated to.

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