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2078 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1335218 1-Jul-2015 17:05
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MikeAqua: Joinery: Make sure any laminate  is fully sealed - especially along the botom edges of the cupboards draws etc.  exposed fiberboard can absorb water and blow out.  Avoid fibre-board window mouldings near work surfaces in the kitchen for the same reason.  They can blow out in time unless sealed very well on all edges (which builders almost never do).

I'd go as far as specifying that all MDF will have a water resistant glue.  I've used this in a bathroom cabinet, left a sample outside in the rain and it took a very long time to start to puff up.  Much better than standard MDF.

1759 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1335222 1-Jul-2015 17:14
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Have you been shown any 3D renders of your place based on the current plans?



I'm not convinced the WC and Bathroom side by side is good use of space, do you really need two on the ground floor?



Also switching them around as suggested earlier means the shower is sharing a bedroom wall. The person in that room (far right) may be woken by others showering... The space separation may limit that currently...

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3972 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1337048 4-Jul-2015 19:01
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Got the updated plans today. Have 2 design layout for ground floor toilets and bathroom. The toilet and bathroom in first photo have been swapped around on ground floor. As you can see that the toilet is now in an L shape. I saw this at their show home as you can see in the photo I took. It hides the toilet pretty well in case the door is left open or if someone is coming out of the toilet. Also the guest toilet door entrance is nearly in alignment with kitchen gully so easy to tell anyone right at the end of gully. The bathroom is also very spacious and now has a 1700mm wide vanity instead of 1500mm along with a separate wardrobe. I was told that the bathroom can be made 0.5M smaller horizontally so I can give .250M to one bedroom and the .250M to the second bedroom making them 4.05M x 3.8M each or just leave the bathroom spacious. Thinking of making bedrooms bigger.

The second photo has toilet and bathroom in same location as they were before but the 1700mm wide vanity has been moved to the side and it has made a lot of space between the toilet and vanity to place something else there (I don't know what I can place there). I like the first design. Added a small window to the end of wardrobe in master bedroom on first floor for ventilation. Decided not to do any other changes on first floor as house is getting bigger with every update otherwise. The TV placement in family room will be at corner as seen in the first photo which will also provide views of back of the section with lots of natural forestry/ravine stuff. I made the storage/server rack by kitchen just a storage rack/linen cupboard by making it only 1M deep and extending the scullery by another 200mm making it 3.6M deep. The server rack has now been moved next to the garage and office along with a small storage closet. The laundry is now flushed with rest of the walls although 200mm smaller vertically. I am thinking of making the server cabinet 200mm ~ 300mm smaller vertically so garage will look like it's protruding out but I can then have a window towards the end of server rack room providing with natural ventilation for that along with the office window and no noise complains if there were going to be any when it was closer to the 2 bedrooms. My next step once the plan is final after some small fix up's mention above is to have a 3D viewing session and make sure it looks good. The kitchen layout will still be played around with when I meet Hostess Kitchens. Will request for moisture resistant MDF with water resistant glue for all cabinetry. Current house cabinetry is 18mm thick which is good.

Current house's distance between cooktop island and sink island is 1.2M. The new build's distance is 1.275M. Wife is very happy with the current distance so will retain 1.275M distance in new house layout currently provided. I removed the slider door directly in front of sink island in kitchen and made it a same size window as 4 others that are in the family/dining/living room area. The kitchen slider is now same size as family room slider and will open to the outside and still managed to have a small window in the pantry. I have extended the family room gallery wall slightly in photo below so it's not super open when looking from kitchen towards family and dining. Removed the window in garage from left hand side and added 2 same size window at top wall level of garage at it's back.

Was told 600mm long eaves towards north from original estimate but made it 750mm longer now which should be plenty for summer sun? Thinking of getting a top of range Miele portable vaccum instead of central vacuum that I was looking at Beam and Zanussi which start at $2500+ and will still need me to lug around the tubes disconnect/reconnect where the connections will be. Hydronic heating is in the hold pipeline if budget allows. If I do go with Hydronic heating then will go for polished concrete on ground floor for maximum benefit. Still waiting on costs/quotation from Leap (Hydronic), Fantech (HRV) and MaxRaft (Slab edge insulation).

Click on the photos to enlarge them. These sets of photos were taken from my mobile phone. Will be little hard to read. Will upload clear one's on Monday when I receive the digital copies.

Click to see full size

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Do whatever you want to do man.


3972 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1338797 7-Jul-2015 18:12
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Got my quotation today based on concept plan drawing for MaxRaft. Also got quotation from Rylock for the Pacific thermal suite windows/framing. Going to ask my builder what Rib Raft's cost component is and compare the costs. Still waiting on Leap's quotation for Hydronic heating. I will try at the very least to have pipes pre-setup/laid in case it's very expensive and I need to buy the heat source later though HVAC (HRV + Cooling) is my number one priority for this size house. Heating compared to current house will be a whole lot better with better insulation, cladding and slab edge insulation plus the cooling component will also do heating to Hydronic heatpump while really good is in reality a double up cost though not ruling it out of the build yet. Below is the final design layout. Have 3D viewing of entire floor plan appointment tomorrow. Total is around 435 sqm. Will be interesting to see the accurate build cost once final drawings, engineering and carters costs come back.

Here are few questions if you folks can please help and answer and help me decide on.

1. Should I stick with 3 degrees roof pitch or make it 8? I was told that making it 8 will not make it any more accessible later for cabling as once the house is built, that's it in terms of retro fitting anything in ceilings. Any other advantage or disadvantage?

2. I am thinking of getting the Rinnai infinity gas system with their bathroom and kitchen controller as Bosch does not seem to offer controllers? Still deciding whether I should go for condensing unit or not as condensing unit is $900 more expensive and I need 3 of these so over a period of 10 years lifetime of these, will condensing unit upfront cost actually pay off by saving on gas usage? Which condensing unit out of the two considering I have 3 bathrooms and 2 sinks in 1 kitchen and I do not need water pressure reduced at any given time for hot water or cold water? Can I get away with 2 units? Which controller? Only have bath in 1 bathroom and really only need temperature controlling of hot water in kitchen and bathrooms instead of limiting water literage use. Which combo should I go for?

3. Should I go with the top roof pitched north of south as you can see in the photos below? Any advantage of either? Solar PV guys say that if it's 3 degrees pitched roof then either way is fine as their tilts can make it point to north without any issue at that low of an angle?

4. How noisy is NZ coloursteel roof? If it's noisy any better solution to fix that issue or a better roof type that's not too noisy when it rains? I really like the profiles of Calder Stewart Euro Tray as recommended on the first page. Also should I mention corrugate for roof type?

Click on thumbnails below to enlarge the size.


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Do whatever you want to do man.


3972 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1338802 7-Jul-2015 18:20
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This is the design/planning that Fantech has done based on their ComfoAir 550 unit. The layout is done on a slightly older plan with AV server rack and toilet orientation not in the right room but otherwise it;s 90% same. Any design flaws that you folks can see in their plan of attack for this? Click on links below to enlarge both photos.

Do whatever you want to do man.


15210 posts

Uber Geek

  # 1338816 7-Jul-2015 18:35
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I believe the eurotray type options (which a number of different manufacturers do), is usually on a plywood substrate, so could be quieter. Also is likely more expensive. Increasing the roof pitch will likely increase cost, as more materials needed to increase wall area.  You could also look at the ESpan profile if you like that wider tray look.

3972 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1339353 8-Jul-2015 16:47
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Thanks mattwnz.

Been looking at SIP based solutions today. What are people's opinion about something like ? Install times are super quick so should save a who lot of time and money on labour?

Do whatever you want to do man.



15210 posts

Uber Geek

  # 1339446 8-Jul-2015 19:00
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billgates: Thanks mattwnz.
Install times are super quick so should save a who lot of time and money on labour?

Personally I am not a fan of such systems. I am into more eco building myself, and more traditional construction methods, and you don't know what chemical cocktails are in such materials, such as adhesives, and their life. So it would ned a bit of research.  I am also not sure how adaptable they are, if you want to make future modifications to the house, which aren't too usually difficult with light timber framing.

3972 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1341201 11-Jul-2015 17:08
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Will be getting in touch with Mitsubishi Hamilton contact for their Lossnay system that can be integrated with their ducted heatpump solution. The Zehnder system from fantech came back at around $25k incl GST and install which does not do heating or cooling just heat recovery ventilation. Have been in touch with CleanAire as well regarding a system install and costs. The Mitsubishi system seems to tick all boxes in terms of full HVAC needs. The cleanaire guy was not so supportive about a 3 degree mono pitched roof design or a 'yeah maybe install in 8 degree' pitch. The house plans have finished. Have run into issues with ownership of the plan with the builder. if I am paying for draughts person/engineering/carters fees for working drawing then I want to be able take it to another builder and get a cost estimate through them but the builders are refusing to allow that at this stag. getting there slowly.

Do whatever you want to do man.


1052 posts

Uber Geek

  # 1341734 12-Jul-2015 19:19
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Added a small window to the end of wardrobe in master bedroom on first floor for ventilation.


If it was on the north-west side instead of the north-east side the people in the adjacent corridor won't be able to see into it.



They should be able to calculate the effect of different eve lengths on summer shading. 75cm should be better than 60cm.



How do central vacuums deal with accidentally sucked up items? I've only seen one before and its ducting produced so much noise.



If the roof is pitched toward the sun it will have more surface area exposed to the sun to heat up. The roof heating up in summer is bad and will really heat the house up if it's black.



Are you using wood or metal for framing?



The Mitsubishi Lossnay is an "energy recovery ventilation" system which means it mixes incoming and outgoing humidity. That's different from HRV systems that keep incoming and outgoing streams separate and transfer heat through metal. ERVs are used in cold climates for moisture retention so beyond the marketing I don't know how it would handle our high humidity or a shower fan. ERV marketing for overseas promotes its humidity retention abilities where their humidity problems are the opposite of ours.

3972 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1351709 25-Jul-2015 19:50
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Using 140x45 wood for framing. Will ask for recommendations on eaves once I get the working drawing back. Not going with central vacuum anymore. Let me know folks, if I should make any changes/substitutions to below SMW. I have dropped soundproofing in all bedrooms and instead spending more $$ and resources in the Home Cinema sound proofing so it's not heard in the bedrooms in the first place.

We reached an agreement regarding ownership of the plans and me wanting to get the working drawing plan priced via another builder without infringing their plans copyright. I have made the first payment to the builder which is for working drawings, engineering costs and trusses/frames calculations via Carters.

I have received the schedule of materials and works but it's not final. I will be making few changes once I get the working drawings back to get quotes on certain products and any limitations in southern end boundary height if I encounter any. Here are the PV sums below until the working drawings are completed and I go shopping with the wife to get confirmed pricing for a contract..

Building Consent $7,000, Excavation $9,000, Scaffolding $14,000, Aluminium Joinery $36,000, Thermal Break $7,500, Low E glass $5,000, Kitchen $29,000, Electrical $26,000,  Drainage $8,000, Heating / Cooling Client to supply, Floating Staircase  $15,000 


All topsoil shall be stripped from the area to be covered by the building and stock piled on site. Removal from site of surplus soil or the spreading of top soil will be charged as an extra.   Our quotation and contracts provides for removal of topsoil and vegetation to a depth of 150mm, and foundation excavation to solid bearing at 300mm below existing ground level. 


A continuous reinforced concrete ring footing dimensioned as per plan or to specific engineer’s design. 

Concrete Flooring

MaxRaft with XPS slab edge insulation

Timber Framing

All walls to have a minimum of two rows of nogging.   In general, framing shall be MSG8 140 x 45 kiln dried, H1.2 treated interior and exterior walls, H1.2 Bottom plates and studs with H1.2 trussed roof framing. Unless specified, all finishing timbers will be suitable for paint finish only.  

Stud height on ground floor to be 2.7m 

Vaulted ceiling in media room with LED downlights around perimeter

First Floor to be 2.55m if daylight angles allow


Power water telephone trenching 20m allowed to home service point. I have asked that electrician from the fibre entry box just outside the section, drag it all the way to the server room instead of the nearest location which will be the garage. The server room is next to the garage anyway.


Colorsteel Endura Longrun .55m Roofing with matching flashings and cappings.  3 degree pitch with Heavy Duty Paper S/SP. Still deciding on the profile type.


External Colorsteel Spouting and Multiline 180 Fascia with matching barge . Fascia style is 1/4 round.


PVC round profile un-painted. 


4.5mm Smooth Hardiflex acrylic paint finish. 750mm eaves on North and West sides of house – please advise if not possible


75mm Rockcote Integra Lightweight Concrete panel system
(Selected paint colour must have LRV of 40% or higher)


Concrete block base unpainted.


Powder-coated aluminium windows & doors as per plan - standard colour range. Double Glazing to all openings including garage Obscure glazing to bathroom, wc, server and ensuite windows only. Restrictor stays to all windows Finger jointed pine liners ex 25mm - selected paint finish. All windows include condensation channels and two catches to all opening sashes wider than 450mm. Thermally broken, argon filled with Low E glass. Floor to ceiling stacker going out from Family room to deck area with level step. Level sill step from top floor master to deck area. Obscure Glass - Etched

Hardware - Colour Matched, Double tongued

Entrance Door: 960w x 2300h, Aluminium Tongue and Groove


Internal Linings - Gib board lined and stopped – selected paint finish Scotia - Square stopped.

Skirting - 60mm PINE – selected paint finish. Garage Door - Garador Coloursteel Sectional garage door as per plan with Whisper automatic opener and 2 remotes. – Selected standard colour.

Door Style - Aspen Sectional garage doors Double door - 5.5w x 2.2h Single door -2.6w x 2.2h. Both doors Insulated


10mm Gib Board fixed and stopped for paint finish except for - 2 x Fyreline 16mm Gib Board with green glue (supplied by me) on each side of media room's double stud walls and ceiling for sound proofing

10mm Aqualine Gib to complete bathroom areas. Stopping to Level 4 finish as per Winstones Publication “Levels of Gib Board Finish”. Garage lined, stopped and painted


13mm Gib board, fixed to 35mm steel ceiling battens and stopped to paint finish. Media room ceiling – 2 x 16mm Fyreline gib board with green glue. 13mm Aqualine Gib to bathroom ceilings. Stopping to Level 4 finish as per Winstones Publication “Levels of Gib Board Finish”. STWC Rondo ceiling battens throughout the entire ground floor and first floor ceiling for soundproofing.


75mm Coving to all rooms selected paint finish.

40mm Bevelled Scotia to all Cupboards.


75mm Pine single bevel edge skirting selected paint finish.


60mm Pine single bevel edge architrave to all doors and windows selected paint finish


All downstairs doors to be 2200mm high 6 panel woodgrain doors. Upstair doors to be 1980mm.

Media room doors (x 2) to have Acoustic doors with solid EPS core, RP530 Jamb seal and RP8 drop down seals


Schlage F-Series door furniture choice of finishes from Jennian range. Schlage – magnetic door catch. Privacy sets (push lock) to WC, all bathrooms, 2 x downstairs bedrooms and master bedroom upstairs. Doors hung with finger jointed jambs. Dummy trims and magnetic catches to cupboards and feature doors. Passage sets to all other doors. If cavity sliders use Gainsborough 396 passage or 395 Privacy. Door Stops : ‘MilesNelson’ 403SC Doorstop (satin chrome)

Locks to internal doors: Dead bolt - Internal garage door


At least 400mm is needed at midfloor for ducted heating pipes. The unit for the ground floor will be in the garage. At least 800mm -1m space in first floor ceiling as the heating unit for the first floor will be in the upstairs ceiling. Floating timber stairs, Particle board floors, H3 treated ply to bathroom areas. Floors finished ready for tiles/floorboards and carpet only. 


Custom-built melamine wardrobe organiser to all master bedroom walk-in wardrobes. Ventilated wire shelf with hanger strip to all other Wardrobes and Cupboards. Allowance of $4000 incl GST.


Dimensioned as per plan White Bestwood Melamine prefinished carcass. Selected Bestwood Melamine doors with 2mm PVC edging. Standard 160mm handles to all doors and drawers from Builders Selection. 60mm Engineered Stone benchtops to kitchen and scullery 1 x Stainless steel 1 ¼ Pero (Heritage Hardware) insert bowl and drainer tray. I am changing sinks to Granite for both kitchen and Scullery. Includes 2 banks of drawers, mounted metal runners with a cutlery insert. Pantry includes full centre shelf with shaped shelves. Units provide for installation of underbench oven and hob and dishwasher. Hinges - Hettich Rangehood installed. Our contract includes a session with a professional colour consultant, a kitchen consultation and an electrical planning meeting. Splashback – glass 900mm x 750mm standard colour Softclose


Downstairs Bathroom: Cashmere Single with soft close drawer Std Vitreous China 1700 Gloss White. Upstairs Bathroom: Cashmere Single with soft close drawer Std Vitreous China 1200 Gloss White. Upstairs En-Suite: Cashmere Single with soft close drawer Std Vitreous China 1700 Gloss White. WC: Clearlite Mimas Composite 495 Gloss White. Mirrors: Polished Edged To vanity widths  


Built in cabinetry by Hostess Kitchens. I am getting my Kitchen done through these folks as well.

FGW to laundry, kitchen and bathrooms


Electrical is not final yet. I will be removing 1 x data port and all TV aerial connections from all bedrooms. The $26k quote includes all of the below including 48 data port and 6 sound zone installation. Will be getting couple more quotes for electrical. Power will be three phase.

Appliances (being thrown in for free by the builder after negotiations for a big build. I am sure the cost is built in)

Fisher & Paykel pyrolytic oven 60cm OB60SL11DEPX1

Fisher & Paykel glass cooktop gas hob 90cm CG905DNGGB1

Fisher & Paykel dishwasher 60cm DW60CCX1

Fisher & Paykel garbage disposal GD75IA1

Parmco digimax canopy/rangehood T4-14DM-LOW-1 1000m3 47db (never heard of this brand. Will get it changed to F&P me thinks)


Reticulation – Fusiotherm piping throughout – 50 year guarantee on piping and Fusiotherm fittings All hot water pipes to be insulated. PVC wastes and vents as per plan installed, where possible, within framing lines. 4 exterior hose taps Floor Gully Wastes to kitchen, bathrooms and laundry 


xx.xx M2 Norman Ellison Augusta 100% Solution Dyed Nylon carpets on underlay except to wet areas marked for tiles; garage floor – no carpet or tiles. Carpet: Ground Floor – Media room only Carpet: First Floor – None 


PC Sum allowed for works related to private sewage and storm-water disposal from new dwelling only.   Cesspits as per plan. Detention tanks, soakage pits, Public Connections, and pipe videos not allowed for unless specifically described in this document. All proof level drainage system at junction between family room and deck areas


Allow for 140 Gribtread timber deck and glass balustrading upstairs over ply and butynol (waterproof) Hardies underneath Allow for Exposed Aggregate to both covered and uncovered decking areas 

Roof access

Hatch required on first floor hallway to access heat pump. Ground floor HVAC will be placed in the garage. There will be 2 separate units (first floor and ground floor for HVAC system)

TILING Waterproofing as required. WC floor tiles skirted and finished with aluminium trims m2 of floor at $60/m2 incl GST retail for tile purchase.   Tiles floor to ceiling in bathrooms TBC   All showers fully tiled, level entry walk in    

Hot Water

1 x 26ltr upstairs

2 x 20ltr downstairs RINNAI INFINITY Continuous Flow Hot water system with 1 standard controller in downstairs bathroom, 1 in upstairs master bathroom and 1 in the kitchen

Kitchen & Bathroom taps

Too many to list but all are Ideal Standard Concept range from Robertson. Will switch them all to Hansgrohe that I will import myself from


Knauf R5.2 in ceilings including garage

Knauf R3.6 in walls including garage, bedrooms, toilets, bathroom, laundry and cinema (both double stud walls insulated)

Knauf R3.2 in midfloor/joist including cinema


Soffits - 2 coats acrylic finish. Plaster finish - 2 coats acrylic finish. Primed Timber - 2 coats acrylic finish.


All hand painted/rolled. Ceilings 1 coat of gib sealer, 2 coats acrylic flat finish ceiling paint. Media ceiling 1 coat Gib sealer, 2 coats Matt BLACK paint Scotia’s Gib cove – 1 coat gib sealer, 2 coats acrylic finish. Skirting 1 coat undercoat, 2 coats enamel finish. Architraves 1 coat undercoat, 2 coats enamel finish. Doors 1 coat undercoat sealer, 2 coats enamel finish. Jambs 1 coat undercoat, 2 coats enamel finish. Walls 1 coat Gib sealer and 2 coats selected acrylic. Wardrobes 1 coat Gib sealer and 2 coats selected acrylic. Media 1 coat Gib sealer and 2 coats Matt BLACK on all walls Pastels, dark base, and feature walls will incur additional charges.


xx.xx M2 Quick Step Largo Timber Flooring for Ground Floor – Entry, hallway, living, dining, family, kitchen and bedrooms

Do whatever you want to do man.


946 posts

Ultimate Geek

  # 1351759 25-Jul-2015 22:50
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+1 for using 145mm studs. 50% more insulation should really help, summer and winter.

I wish everybody else also considered the building standards as minimums instead of targets.

1052 posts

Uber Geek

  # 1351795 26-Jul-2015 08:11
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I don't think excluding the sound control batts around the bedrooms' internal walls is a good move. It isn't a major cost but can make a big difference to the liveability of the house as without it people in a bedroom may be able to hear everything that happens outside of the bedroom. It will be much more expensive to correct later.



For the decking get non CCA timber like Abodo or NatureDeck as the CCA treatment makes it unsuitable for contact surfaces.



By "Thermal break" do you mean that is the extra cost for the aluminium joinery profiles with it? Don't get dark powdercoating as the unshaded metal will become very hot to touch in summer.



3972 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1351803 26-Jul-2015 08:59
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I am getting the bedroom walls (all sides) insulated with R3.6. The quote I have received from Knauf is for R2.8 acoustic batts which are more expensive and provides no better sound blocking than their standard R3.6 product which is cheaper. Acoustic batts are waste of $$ over standard batts. Insulation brings least to the soundproofing party. Best thing I learned from AVSforum. I removed the double GIB option with green glue, solid core doors with seals from all bedrooms. This will save $$$ and I am instead adding an extra layer of GIB layer with green glue on outside stud wall of cinema room.

Thermal break component is the thermally broken frame. Good tip on dark powder coating colour. Will look into decking timber.

Do whatever you want to do man.


1702 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1351817 26-Jul-2015 09:35
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Yep - another +1 for 140mm framing - I did this in my build a few years ago and am very happy with the results. Put a layer of 90mm Ultra + 50mm masonary batts to give a very high R rating (can't remember the exact figure). 

I also went for thermally broken joinery in Ironsand. I have plenty of windows exposed to direct sunlight including my large bifolds which open out onto the deck. I wouldn't say there is an issue with them overheating to the point they are too hot to touch, but I have found my big bifold opening panel/door bows in the sun when open - I think due to the fact one side heats up a lot more than the other (thanks to the thermal break). Means I am unable to properly lock the door (i.e. lift the handle up to send the locking pins up/down into the frame). I can still lock the handle so it is not the end of the world, and once the door is closed it straightens out after 10-15 mins again, but something to consider.

I wouldn't change anything as I love the colour but it was something I, nor the joiners, realised might happen.

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