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3685 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1387382 14-Sep-2015 18:43 Send private message quote this post

Kitchen post is in below link.

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=141&topicid=175311&page_no=8#1387369

Received the second round of changes/pre-lims back today as well. If everything is alright with these changes then I can give the builders go ahead to get me pricing for the house which will be 90% of total build cost. 10% can only be done once full working drawings are done. This will give me the 4.5 hours balance left on changes that I can use if I need to change anything or scaled the house down if needed.


















Click links below to enlarge photo size.

http://i.imgur.com/OpoQlAj.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QrFheTZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wFflMMu.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/i6UPKGm.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xtJDn5o.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GT4OaWl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9CA8Fno.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MKS3VeZ.jpg





Do whatever you want to do man.

  

9 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1387389 14-Sep-2015 18:55 Send private message quote this post

Hi Bill

Thanks for the kitchen drawings. Can I confirm that the 2 lines in picture 1 are walls at : 2250 and 4688.

If they are then get back, as I may suggest an alternative plan.

Thanks

 

 





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  Reply # 1387574 14-Sep-2015 22:10 Send private message quote this post

The walls you see in first photo of kitchen post I am pretty sure are in front and side of the kitchen island.




Do whatever you want to do man.

  

9 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1387581 14-Sep-2015 22:23 Send private message quote this post

No, I am not talking about the island. The walls at the periphery of the kitchen -- I am trying to confirm are not doors or full length windows (next to where 2250 and 4688 is written)

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  Reply # 1387583 14-Sep-2015 22:36 Send private message quote this post

Bill i think hes talking about the wall the the right of the scullery entrance/on your right when at the breakfast bar and the wall behind you when you are sitting at the breakfast bar

to me they are walls, with windows/doors in them, see picture 2 at the top of this page if thats whats your trying to get at?

you want to know if they are full height or....



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  Reply # 1387584 14-Sep-2015 22:38 Send private message quote this post

That is the walls in front and side of the kitchen island. 4688 is a window wall and 2250 is a sliding door wall. 2250 sliding door is full height floor to ceiling sliding door.




Do whatever you want to do man.

  

9 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1387589 14-Sep-2015 22:59 Send private message quote this post

Billgates,

The concern that I have is that you have too few kitchen units The island is being populated by units on one side only. This will very likely prove too little in a few months and will be very expensive to fix. 

I can give you alternatives (almost doubling the kitchen units), but the 2250 sliding door will need to go frown.  You could have windows instead wink.

If a door is essential, can you do with just a standard 900mm door ?

If that 2250 door is non negotiable, I have nothing further to add.



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  Reply # 1387623 15-Sep-2015 08:38 Send private message quote this post

Non negotiable. The side and front provide good views (specially the side). I will post a back of the section when I visit it next. The new kitchen is quite a bit bigger than our current including benchtop space and scullery. In terms or storage space, it looks to be more with new kitchen.




Do whatever you want to do man.

  

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  Reply # 1388312 16-Sep-2015 01:34 Send private message quote this post

I don't have any experience with those particular models. But all of the combi boilers I have seen so far provide all of their heat output into the closed circuit central heating system. And to provide the domestic hot water heating, they use a diversion valve to send the central heating water through a water to water heat exchanger. Instead of through the radiators. This means on a cold start, the unit has to heat up the closed circuit water in both it's internal heat exchangers, the circulating pump ect. Before it can start providing hot water. This would be terrible to supply a kitchen, as you often use water in short bursts. Meaning alot of starts and stops, And along wait for the water to get to full temp. Since they are using a secondary heat exchanger to run the domestic hot water. The primary circuit (central heating water) needs to run at 80deg. Which means lower efficiency, And that a mixing valve is needed to reduce the temp down for the underfloor heating.

Also with normal Infinity water heaters, their startup delay really annoys some people. As you turn on a tap, you get hot water. You turn the tap off then shortly after you turn it on again. You initially get the hot water that is still in the pipes then you get a burst of cold or not very hot water due to the startup delay. Then hot again. Some people don't care about this, but others find this a major problem. It is often worse in the kitchen or where you have long pipe runs between the infinity and your taps. If you will find these temp fluctuations annoying then don't use infinities or any other brand of instant water heater. Use hot water cylinders. The Rheem Stellar outdoor gas cylinders would be the best gas cylinder to use. Consider a little electric cylinder for just the kitchen. Especially if you want hotter than 55deg water in the kitchen.  The cylinder can itself be connected to the output of an infinity. So the cylinder will mainly be buffering the water temp to the kitchen.


And have you considered the temp swing issue with underfloor heating? Mainly that the slab is warm overnight due to providing heating to the house. The sun comes up and starts heating the house as well. Although the thermostat has turned the heating off, the slab continues to radiate heat. Meaning the house gets too hot. And when the sun goes down. No more solar heat. Thermostat turns on. But due to delay in heating up slab. The house gets cold.

So underfloor heating works well when it is cold enough that you need heating 24/7. So good in alot of Europe. But no good for typical NZ weather of cold, to hot and straight back to cold again. But alot depends on how much sun your house will get. If you were building somewhere with almost no sun such as in the middle of a forest. I would say definitely get underfloor heating.





103 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1388329 16-Sep-2015 07:12 Send private message quote this post

The floor won't radiate any heat if the room air temp is same or warmer than the floor.



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  Reply # 1394582 25-Sep-2015 20:16 Send private message quote this post

Wife is not too happy with the Kitchen layout and needs more cabinetry space and benchtop space on the cooktop Island. Received a 2nd kitchen design layout with new suggestions. Here is what I am thinking of doing and the wife seems to be happy with this suggestion. Move the microwave and oven right in front of the pantry door. Copy and paste the glass door cabinetry above the cooktop to the left side as well where microwave and small cabinetry above it was. Put pull out drawers below the cooktop and big door cabinets on left and right hand side of the pull out drawers. The main Island looks to be perfect though we did add a mitred waterfall as well of same engineered stone as above and it's not cheap! I should get about 95% build cost estimate with all recent changes in 2 ~ 3 weeks as well before giving the green signal for full working drawings.

Got my quotes for underfloor hydronic heating from both Leap and John Guest with gas boilers. Using heatpump + small tank for buffer is extra $5k on top if I wish to upgrade from the Bosch 18kW gas boiler.

Here are also the views of the back of the section. It is prob a 10m ~ 20m deep ravine. The house is back of my neighbors. Beautiful looking house from the back and sides.













Click on links below to view full size photos.

http://i.imgur.com/JYAKNGj.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DqO5vpA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sN8zTb5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/N3brObR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/n156lxA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/TZ0KzJh.jpg





Do whatever you want to do man.

  

917 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 38


  Reply # 1394628 25-Sep-2015 22:59 Send private message quote this post

Most hydronic underfloor heating systems in New Zealand have had the pipes installed directly into the concrete slab. The alternative is to have the pipes installed in the middle of a thin plastic scaffolding that goes under the flooring but over the concrete. I think installing it over the concrete sounds more responsive, repairable and efficient.

 

 



If the house has a ducted heat pump that would make underfoor heating a kind of duplication as there would be two central heating systems.
The Daikin Altherma air to water heat pump can provide hot water, heat underfloor pipes and do summer cooling. Cons are it isn't as efficient at cooling as an air to air heat pump and I don't think it removes moisture when cooling but unlike gas based systems it doesn't require a second user charge and the PV panels can help it which could mean cheaper heating costs over time.

 

 



As a paper based ERV system Mitsubishi advertises in other countries the Lossnay's ability to keep moisture inside the house in winter. That doesn't sound good.

 

 



The kitchen looks disproportionately small for the size of the house with a single oven and small sink. A second compact mini oven could be useful. There are cheaper alternatives to engineered stone that look similar and are warmer to touch.

 

 



Does the house have a specific type of low e glass specified? A lower quality low e glass would make the house colder and darker.

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  Reply # 1394758 26-Sep-2015 10:52 Send private message quote this post

bfginger: Most hydronic underfloor heating systems in New Zealand have had the pipes installed directly into the concrete slab. The alternative is to have the pipes installed in the middle of a thin plastic scaffolding that goes under the flooring but over the concrete. I think installing it over the concrete sounds more responsive, repairable and efficient.

If the house has a ducted heat pump that would make underfoor heating a kind of duplication as there would be two central heating systems.
The Daikin Altherma air to water heat pump can provide hot water, heat underfloor pipes and do summer cooling. Cons are it isn't as efficient at cooling as an air to air heat pump and I don't think it removes moisture when cooling but unlike gas based systems it doesn't require a second user charge and the PV panels can help it which could mean cheaper heating costs over time.

As a paper based ERV system Mitsubishi advertises in other countries the Lossnay's ability to keep moisture inside the house in winter. That doesn't sound good.

The kitchen looks disproportionately small for the size of the house with a single oven and small sink. A second compact mini oven could be useful. There are cheaper alternatives to engineered stone that look similar and are warmer to touch.

Does the house have a specific type of low e glass specified? A lower quality low e glass would make the house colder and darker.


OP is using gas for Hot water via Infinities. So using gas for underfloor heating won't make any difference to the gas supply charge. In fact - the lower electricity use might put the OP into the "low user" category for electricity. Meaning they could get a saving on the electricity fixed charges.

Also any air to water heatpump will never be as efficient as an air to air heatpump. Simply due to the higher temperatures the water needs to be heated to.





326 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 81


  Reply # 1394807 26-Sep-2015 12:10 quote this post

I just have a few reservations about the kitchen;
1 - Microwave is too high at approximately 1500mm to safely remove steaming hot dishes. I am 185cm tall and microwave plate would be fairly high up my chest. My wife is shorter and dish would be at face level. Kids would be worse. Our microwave sits on the bench, well below face height if there are any splashes. I have seen some kitchens with the microwave below the bench.
2- Wall above cook top is disjointed. Prefer a cupboard unit right along the wall with a hidden range hood. More cupboard space.
3 - I would have drawers only below bench height. Our kitchen has mainly cupboards and I have to kneel down every morning when unloading the dishwasher. Also a pain looking for stuff.
4 - Range hood looks to be too high at about 1750-1800mm above floor. Also not full width between the two overhead units to catch all the steam.



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  Reply # 1394812 26-Sep-2015 12:29 Send private message quote this post

Thanks for the suggestions folks. Keep them coming.

I am going to ensure that when the microwave and oven are moved in the walk in pantry right in front of the pantry door, the height of using both appliances makes sense. I will also have to make the benchtop in scullery 600mm deep instead of 500mm as oven from F&P I am looking at is 583mm. I made the cooktop Island benchtop also 710mm deep instead of the recommended 600mm due to french door fridge being 690mm deep. I will also consider having a full cupboard wall above cooktop with hidden range hood. The reason why we have few drawers and more cupboards is because this allows for more space and we have a lot of big size utensils like pressure cookers, pots and pans. In the current house with cupboards for these pots and pans, it works well.

As for Low-e glass I have specified Planithem Low-e from Viridian.




Do whatever you want to do man.

  

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