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  # 1386744 13-Sep-2015 17:57
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richms: Also the more I play with a friends AEG/ridgid tools the more I regret going all-in on ryobi ones. Nothing "wrong" with the ryobi's, but the AEGs just feel nicer.


Ergonomics and comfort in the hand are attributes that are often giving too little priority when choosing power tools. Price, reliability and features get a lot more discussion than fit. Hand size and shape vary widely so it's no surprise that one size and shape does not feel comfortable for everyone.

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  # 1386790 13-Sep-2015 18:34
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Ryobi and AEG are both brads of Techtronic Industries. Bunnings are the exclusive stockists of both in NZ.

AEG is definitely higher end than Ryobi, with a 6-year trade warranty. AEG is targeted at tradies and prosumers (they are heavier and feel more solid), while Ryobi is targeted at the retail market. AEG has an 18v and 12v range (as well as corded); within the 12/18v divide, all tools are compatible with the same battery packs. Ryobi has a One+/OnePlus brand for it's modern cordless tools; again within that (and subject to the 12/18v distinction) they're all cross compatible. There are however still older Ryobi tools floating around that use a different battery system.

In NZ at least, Ryobi have a much greater range of tools (caulking guns, blowers, line trimmers, nail guns etc. as well as the traditional stuff). AEG focusses on the more traditional circular saws, drills, impact drivers and multi tools.

Drills and impact drivers are for different things. You can use a drill as a screwdriver (particularly if the drill has a setting for it), but you can't use an impact driver for drilling. Impact drivers are geared to have much lower speed but much more torque. They also don't apply the torque smoothly, rather in bursts (the "impact" bit of the impact driver, and why they are also called rattle guns). They are great for screwing chunky screws into chunky fixings, but don't try to do anything delicate with them. They are also typically smaller and lighter (often coming with a belt clip) than a drill.

If you only get one tool, a drill is more versatile. The kit prices for both can be a pretty good deal though, particularly if you are doing something like a hardwood deck - much easier to drill then screw with separate tools, rather than constantly changing a drill bit for a driver head.

I have AEG tools and love them. But I have to confess that the initial kit was a gift (and then I got sucked in via the battery compatibility and general awesomeness of them). I probably couldn't have justified the purchase price if I was buying them for myself. They're probably 1.5 to 2 times the price of the equivalent Ryobi. I have other Ryobi stuff (mostly corded) and it's still pretty good.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1386925 13-Sep-2015 20:59
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 mdf: but you can't use an impact driver for drilling. Impact drivers are geared to have much lower speed but much more torque. They also don't apply the torque smoothly, rather in bursts (the "impact" bit of the impact driver, and why they are also called rattle guns). They are great for screwing chunky screws into chunky fixings, but don't try to do anything delicate with them. They are also typically smaller and lighter (often coming with a belt clip) than a drill.


That's wrong on many levels.

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  # 1386936 13-Sep-2015 21:19
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Fred99:
 mdf: but you can't use an impact driver for drilling. Impact drivers are geared to have much lower speed but much more torque. They also don't apply the torque smoothly, rather in bursts (the "impact" bit of the impact driver, and why they are also called rattle guns). They are great for screwing chunky screws into chunky fixings, but don't try to do anything delicate with them. They are also typically smaller and lighter (often coming with a belt clip) than a drill.


That's wrong on many levels.


It's consistent with what I was told at Bunnings which is why I didn't buy one. I'd be interested in your opposing view if you had time please. 


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  # 1386965 13-Sep-2015 22:41
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networkn:
Fred99:
 mdf: but you can't use an impact driver for drilling. Impact drivers are geared to have much lower speed but much more torque. They also don't apply the torque smoothly, rather in bursts (the "impact" bit of the impact driver, and why they are also called rattle guns). They are great for screwing chunky screws into chunky fixings, but don't try to do anything delicate with them. They are also typically smaller and lighter (often coming with a belt clip) than a drill.


That's wrong on many levels.


It's consistent with what I was told at Bunnings which is why I didn't buy one. I'd be interested in your opposing view if you had time please. 



Impact drivers are usually higher speed, typically ~3000 rpm vs ~2000rpm (no load) for two-speed battery drills on high speed.  The impact drivers are usually ungeared - the drills often have a two-speed gearbox.  The fast hammer action does end up applying (much) more torque, but for driving small screws - particularly stainless - they'll drive them faster and with less chance of shearing them than a drill/driver.  They can be used for drilling - you can buy hex-shank bits designed for that purpose, but if you try drilling heavy gauge steel etc, a slower drill without impact is better, as they'll overheat the drill tip at 3000rpm and if the impact kicks in, the bits might shatter.  Horses for courses.  You can also get hex-drive shank standard chucks to plug in to an impact driver anvil.  A "rattle gun" I'd more more usually associate with an air-tool, though I do have an 18v battery "rattle gun" high-torque driver, they'd usually be geared to perhaps 1000 RPM and have 1/2" or 3/4" square anvil (to fit impact sockets etc).  Now that I wouldn't hang off a belt clip, it probably weights 4kg, and is more of a specialist tool, lower RPM and many times more torque than an impact driver (5-10x more).  It'll snap 12mm bolts very easily if misused - or undo a rusted axle nut that you can't budge with a large breaker bar, and do it with no effort. 
Many of the newer pro brushless motor impact drivers have variable power/speed settings.  My 18v hammer drill/driver came with a belt clip, and it's no problem to hang it off my belt.
They typically sell drill/diver and impact driver 2 tool kits for a good reason - it's a very handy combination.  

I wouldn't take too much notice of what Bunnings staff tell you.

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  # 1387415 14-Sep-2015 19:25
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i bought an AEG 18v from a powertool place in napier thats on trademe. the original 1.5ah batteries crapped out in under a year and they sent me replacements overnight...the replacements are 3.0ah and have lasted 5 years and counting...i  evn bought a rigid drill off ebay that fits my aeg batteries but the rigid chuck isnat as good as the aeg chuck..at the time i think i payed $170 for the 18V aeg drill with 2 batts and fast charger which was waaaaaaaaaay cheaper than any of teh other brands

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  # 1388039 15-Sep-2015 17:36
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I ended up buying my father an 18V AEG drill for Christmas last year, and for him its awesome. It will drill through anything and does an exceptional job.

my needs are somewhat less than him (farmer drilling gate hinges and the like) So I went with the 10.8v dewalt drill and impact driver set for my purposes its awesome. Its extremely light and will drill everything I've thrown at it so far.  

 
 
 
 


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  # 1392943 23-Sep-2015 18:06
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richms: I dont get how these brands can justify selling a 3 cell tool as 12v, while at the same time selling a 5 cell as 18v. You have a 10.8v tool there. Or the big one would be a 20v by the same rationale.


Dewalt actually do use that rationale in the US, where the same 18V batteries/tools are sold as 20V (unloaded voltage) while the 12V is sold in NZ as 10.8V. I gave up on my Ryobi and now only use Dewalt, and use it alot. Warrantee not as good as AEG but then I had a great run with Dewalt, probably better tools and I don't pay Bunnings prices either. I definitely find that bigger holes need slower speeds so 3-speed impact drill is minimum for me, and also drills holes for concrete plugs. Dewalt batteries are really reliable too.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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  # 1392948 23-Sep-2015 18:17
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Fred99:
networkn:
Fred99:
 mdf: but you can't use an impact driver for drilling. Impact drivers are geared to have much lower speed but much more torque. They also don't apply the torque smoothly, rather in bursts (the "impact" bit of the impact driver, and why they are also called rattle guns). They are great for screwing chunky screws into chunky fixings, but don't try to do anything delicate with them. They are also typically smaller and lighter (often coming with a belt clip) than a drill.


That's wrong on many levels.


It's consistent with what I was told at Bunnings which is why I didn't buy one. I'd be interested in your opposing view if you had time please. 



Impact drivers are usually higher speed, typically ~3000 rpm vs ~2000rpm (no load) for two-speed battery drills on high speed.  The impact drivers are usually ungeared - the drills often have a two-speed gearbox.  The fast hammer action does end up applying (much) more torque, but for driving small screws - particularly stainless - they'll drive them faster and with less chance of shearing them than a drill/driver.  They can be used for drilling - you can buy hex-shank bits designed for that purpose, but if you try drilling heavy gauge steel etc, a slower drill without impact is better, as they'll overheat the drill tip at 3000rpm and if the impact kicks in, the bits might shatter.  Horses for courses.  You can also get hex-drive shank standard chucks to plug in to an impact driver anvil.  A "rattle gun" I'd more more usually associate with an air-tool, though I do have an 18v battery "rattle gun" high-torque driver, they'd usually be geared to perhaps 1000 RPM and have 1/2" or 3/4" square anvil (to fit impact sockets etc).  Now that I wouldn't hang off a belt clip, it probably weights 4kg, and is more of a specialist tool, lower RPM and many times more torque than an impact driver (5-10x more).  It'll snap 12mm bolts very easily if misused - or undo a rusted axle nut that you can't budge with a large breaker bar, and do it with no effort. 
Many of the newer pro brushless motor impact drivers have variable power/speed settings.  My 18v hammer drill/driver came with a belt clip, and it's no problem to hang it off my belt.
They typically sell drill/diver and impact driver 2 tool kits for a good reason - it's a very handy combination.  

I wouldn't take too much notice of what Bunnings staff tell you.


Yup impact driver is not geared slower at all, but when it hits solid material it starts driving the screw in with its hammer, hence the "impact". Once you use it you work out what situations its good for, but theres a reason it called a driver — because its GREAT for driving in screws! I also have a smaller 12V one to get less torque on smaller screws, which is the one that hangs off my toolbelt until I sit down and forget its there. You can get adapters to use sockets on the impact driver as well as hex drill bits, so I always have a hex drill bit on my tool belt along with the driver bits I normally use.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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  # 1393013 23-Sep-2015 19:36
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webwat:
richms: I dont get how these brands can justify selling a 3 cell tool as 12v, while at the same time selling a 5 cell as 18v. You have a 10.8v tool there. Or the big one would be a 20v by the same rationale.


Dewalt actually do use that rationale in the US, where the same 18V batteries/tools are sold as 20V (unloaded voltage) while the 12V is sold in NZ as 10.8V.


Yeah, I just expect consistancy between the 3S and 5S products from the same range about what they call the voltage of the pack. Milwaukee do it with the M12 and M18 as well. Just seems stupid.

webwat:
I gave up on my Ryobi and now only use Dewalt, and use it alot. Warrantee not as good as AEG but then I had a great run with Dewalt, probably better tools and I don't pay Bunnings prices either. I definitely find that bigger holes need slower speeds so 3-speed impact drill is minimum for me, and also drills holes for concrete plugs. Dewalt batteries are really reliable too.


It seems with the dollar in the drain at the moment, bunnings prices are tollerable when compared to the US ones with freight and GST added on. I've just had shipito consolodate into 2 parcels what was going to be one, The dollar so bad would have got it pinged GST and fees as one. Split up its not saving a lot but it helps.




Richard rich.ms

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  # 1393055 23-Sep-2015 20:27
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Fred99: Impact drivers are usually higher speed, typically ~3000 rpm vs ~2000rpm (no load) for two-speed battery drills on high speed.  The impact drivers are usually ungeared - the drills often have a two-speed gearbox.  The fast hammer action does end up applying (much) more torque, but for driving small screws - particularly stainless - they'll drive them faster and with less chance of shearing them than a drill/driver.  They can be used for drilling - you can buy hex-shank bits designed for that purpose, but if you try drilling heavy gauge steel etc, a slower drill without impact is better, as they'll overheat the drill tip at 3000rpm and if the impact kicks in, the bits might shatter.  Horses for courses.  You can also get hex-drive shank standard chucks to plug in to an impact driver anvil.  A "rattle gun" I'd more more usually associate with an air-tool, though I do have an 18v battery "rattle gun" high-torque driver, they'd usually be geared to perhaps 1000 RPM and have 1/2" or 3/4" square anvil (to fit impact sockets etc).  Now that I wouldn't hang off a belt clip, it probably weights 4kg, and is more of a specialist tool, lower RPM and many times more torque than an impact driver (5-10x more).  It'll snap 12mm bolts very easily if misused - or undo a rusted axle nut that you can't budge with a large breaker bar, and do it with no effort. 
Many of the newer pro brushless motor impact drivers have variable power/speed settings.  My 18v hammer drill/driver came with a belt clip, and it's no problem to hang it off my belt.
They typically sell drill/diver and impact driver 2 tool kits for a good reason - it's a very handy combination.  

I wouldn't take too much notice of what Bunnings staff tell you.


I stand corrected.

I'm interested in your views about stainless steel screws though. I've had all sorts of issues with sheared stainless screws. Without having undertaken any kind of scientific survey, my instinct was that they were worse with the impact driver than something slower and steadier. I've tried to move away from using stainless steel in anything except pine, and when I have to use stainless in harder woods I will usually silicone (when I'm doing it properly) or soap (when I can't be @rsed) the screw. I just did a big deck for my mother with ACQ treated steel screws and a torx head and only broke 3 screws in 3000 (one of which I stood on and bent). My deck (done previously with stainless) I sheared off/stripped the head of about a dozen, and it was a third the size.

It may just be the cr@ptacular quality stainless screws I seem to end up with though. QC doesn't seem to be particularly strong there.

And sticking up for the Bunnings staff, I find you get a binary solution set. They are either brilliant and know exactly what they are talking about (usually only work weekdays), or... not (the weekend warriors).

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  # 1393069 23-Sep-2015 20:51
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The weekend ones have to put up with stupid guys that take their partners with them who argue all the time.

During the weekdays its full of tradies and old people whining about how much things cost and expecting the staff to be able to explain why one brand cost 4x another brand.

I feel sorry for the staff in either case.




Richard rich.ms

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