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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1510612 10-Mar-2016 14:46
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 I had a chat to one of their sales team.

 

So, for me it would be 14 panels and a battery (Panasonic 8kwh).  I've got a flat roof ( 5 deg) and instead of mounting on stands to get the right inclination, they just add another panel.

 

They are using Enaphase microinverters.

 

If the power fails, it shuts down, but you have access to a single power point rated so that you can draw 1kw/h only.

 

They are suggesting a new power company with day and night rates, I think he said 11c/kwh at night, but I'd just stay with Flick at 5c/kwh, and not export anything back to the grid or not worry about the export if any.

 

And there is an option to purchase the rest of the production so that you don't pay anything thereafter, but they still own the gear and look after it.  This might be if you were to sell the house and the buyer did not want to take on the contract.




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1510640 10-Mar-2016 15:22
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 Here's the battery information

 

http://www.clevermadeeasy.co.nz/home-essentials/home-battery

 

 

 

And looks like Panasonic are suggesting that you can use their battery without PV panels as well.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1510652 10-Mar-2016 15:38
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Our previous house had solar hot water under a council scheme where it's financed and the payments are added onto the rates.  When we came to sell the house the ongoing repayments were an issue for buyers, even though they obviously got the hot water system with the house and we could show the extra rates were substantially more than offset by much lower power use. 

 

Yes they were trying it on, but it what can happen when a house comes with ongoing extraneous payments.

 

Also what happens if the solar company goes broke?  Who then owns the panels and how will they conduct themselves?





Mike



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  Reply # 1510656 10-Mar-2016 15:51
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 If they go broke, they still own the equipment, and I guess the receiver finds another buyer for the business.

 

Currently they are backed by Stephen Tindall's K1W1 fund and by Pencarrow PE.

 

I guess if it's an issue, just pre-pay the rest of the power, and add that cost to the house.


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  Reply # 1511420 11-Mar-2016 15:19
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I am still waiting for Vector to fisnish testing of Tesla Battery and Solar panels. Installation has not been scheduled yet.

 

As far as back up power mentioned by some above - power generators running on gas are cheap nowadays. Solar power IMO is not a back up solution, neither the Panasonic or Tesla battery.

 

My understanding is that power company and not you are in control of what and when goes back into the grid. I did not get the answer about type of monitoring I would have. During "Future of Energy" campaign monitoring software was mentioned as part of the deal. But they dropped it out. Hope there will be some sort of monitoring (in/out) tool available. Doubtful they will allow something like - "I want to drain my Telsa battery tonight down to 5% left before I start using power from the grid again". Will wait and see...




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1511427 11-Mar-2016 15:37
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My understanding is that the Panasonic (8kwh) and Tesla (7kwh) batteries both use Panasonic components.

 

Since the solarZero+ setup allows you to use the battery with a single connector, how could they stop you draining the power from the battery? ( 2kw/hr over 4 hours).


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  Reply # 1511631 11-Mar-2016 22:29
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gchiu:

 

My understanding is that the Panasonic (8kwh) and Tesla (7kwh) batteries both use Panasonic components.

 

Since the solarZero+ setup allows you to use the battery with a single connector, how could they stop you draining the power from the battery? ( 2kw/hr over 4 hours).

 

 

 

 

You would have to switch off the circuit breaker linking the battery to the switchboard to make it think there is a power cut. Or you might have to switch off the mains. And your max discharge rate is actually 1kW per hour. Grid power needs to be available to get 2kW per hour - They are presumably using the grid to supply peak loads and deal with bad power factors and reactive loads.

 

 

 

And we don't know if it is capable of charging from the solar during a power cut. Since the solar panels are connected to micro inverters - These won't output any power unless they detect that the grid is present. Unless they use the batteries inverter to fool the micro inverters into thinking that grid power is still connected. But then you would have 3kW or more of solar generating capacity dumping power into a battery unit that can absorb a max of only 2kW. - My guess is that in a power cut - the batteries cannot charge from the solar in this setup. 

 

 

 

And as far as disaster resilience goes - For most people having a form of gas cooking and a car cellphone charger will be a big improvement. For not much risk / outlay. As they can cook and eat their perishable food before it spoils. And boil water. The battery system cannot supply enough power to run a microwave. Or a plug in hob / electric fryingpan. So you are still going to need gas cooking.

 

 

 

I have said it before - a large electric hot water cylinder has a way cheaper cost per kW/hr than a battery system. 300L cylinder - cost $1600 - Takes about 18kW/hr to heat to 60deg from 10deg. meaning cost per kW/hr of storage is $89 per kW/hr. A 135L cylinder (which alot of people will have) - 8.4kW/hr to heat. So almost everyone already has an energy storage device in their house with an equivalent capacity of a Panasonic battery system. And 1/3 to 1/2 of the average power bill is for water heating. So still big scope for savings to be made. And a hot water cylinder is far less resource intensive both to manufacture and to recycle / dispose of at end of life. How long until we will see battery systems get to around $100 per kW/hr? Probably awhile.

 

 

 

Conclusion - just get grid connected solar with a divertor to send excess production to the hot water cylinder. And if buying a new cylinder - get a 300L (or bigger) with twin element. 2nd element 1/3 from the top. The bottom element is run from the PV divertor, Top element used for boosting the temp if needed.








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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1512222 13-Mar-2016 11:14
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I already have a solar hot water system so don't want to divert any power to my HWC.

 

But I do need power for my fish tanks in the event of an outage, and for lighting.

 

One of my neighbours lost all his angel fish due to a power outage.  For some reason when the power came back on again, his heaters didn't restart, and there wasn't anyone home to check.

 

They do say it can't be used for fridges due to the high starting current.


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  Reply # 1512236 13-Mar-2016 12:04
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Just found that even tho physically the import/export meter is identical to the old meter I had, It is not a smart meter to genesis so they cannot do any remote readings. I have an estimated bill and have to stuff about sending them readings if I want a real one. Seems the estimates are not the best.





Richard rich.ms



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1522442 29-Mar-2016 18:56
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Got an email from them to say many of the major retailers were increasing prices on the 1st April.  And if we sign up before 1st, we can get 20 Panasonic LEDs for our house ...


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  Reply # 1522492 29-Mar-2016 21:41
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What happens if you sell the house and the new owner does not want to commit to the contract? These days 20 years is a long time to stay in one house.

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  Reply # 1522498 29-Mar-2016 22:07
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gchiu:

 

Got an email from them to say many of the major retailers were increasing prices on the 1st April.  And if we sign up before 1st, we can get 20 Panasonic LEDs for our house ...

 

 

 

 

I'd be wary of making any decision that is rushed or based on increasing prices. It doesn't sound right that the prices of these systems are increasing when the economies of technology and scale should be keeping them down.


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  Reply # 1522503 29-Mar-2016 22:15
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larknz: What happens if you sell the house and the new owner does not want to commit to the contract? These days 20 years is a long time to stay in one house.


Simple, you reduce the offer if buying, to compensate. Do they go onto the property title or something?

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  Reply # 1522573 30-Mar-2016 08:53
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Receivers work for 'the bank' and have a track record of not playing nicely with consumers ...

 

If they wish to sell the business as a going a concern or trade out of receivership, they will want to up the margin.  To do this they will present you with the option of accepting a less favourable (to you) contract or having the equipment removed from your house.

 

gchiu:

 

 If they go broke, they still own the equipment, and I guess the receiver finds another buyer for the business.

 

 

 





Mike

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  Reply # 1522575 30-Mar-2016 08:55
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I suspect the price increase referred to is by electricity retailers.

 

Hammerer:

 

gchiu:

 

Got an email from them to say many of the major retailers were increasing prices on the 1st April.  And if we sign up before 1st, we can get 20 Panasonic LEDs for our house ...

 

 

 

 

I'd be wary of making any decision that is rushed or based on increasing prices. It doesn't sound right that the prices of these systems are increasing when the economies of technology and scale should be keeping them down.

 





Mike

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