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Topic # 204334 27-Sep-2016 19:05
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I'm having a shocking time getting tradesmen to show up, so I'm posting a few questions here while i wait for someone to actually turn up.

Have a terracotta tile roof, the wooden framework underneath is like leaning 2 playing cards together - no bracing between each side or to anything. Not sure how normal that is? House is circa 1950.

The floor and bargeboards are chocka with borer.

The roof from outside seems to be sagging.

I'm planning to go to colorsteel. So a lighter roof. No consent required.

Am wondering, the noticeable sagging i see, will this likely be resolved by removing and replacing bits of wood here and there...

What I'm getting at is there is degree of worry i accept a quote, and roof comes off and they say wood is rotten or full of borer... The council man says it's almost unheard of that an entire roof frame would need replacing... But said it's a major time/cost for consent and requires architect. Could conceivably exceed half the houses value.

Would a roofer get up in ceiling space and inspect as part of a free quote? First roofer said he would simply do a drive by and put quote in mailbox without close inspection.

Any input appreciated.

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  Reply # 1641427 27-Sep-2016 19:07
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Get a pest guy in to inspect. If you're in Wellington this guy is awesome, has a masters degree in pest management from somewhere in the USA.





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  Reply # 1641430 27-Sep-2016 19:18
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Maybe be being a bit of devils advocate here... but if the roof comes off and you find rotten wood, could a builder not simply just replace it all in the same shape, pitch etc and then put the new iron on. Council would be none the wiser?

 

I struggle to see why consent and architects would be required to replace timber like-for-like. If the roof was completely changing then sure. But repairing rotten wood is surely just that, a repair.


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  Reply # 1641435 27-Sep-2016 19:23
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Who told you no consent is required? If you are moving to a different type of roof, it will not be a like for like replacement, so I believe a consent is  required. Usually only if it is a  'like for like' replacement, a consent is not required, but even that can be questionable as technologies change. eg a pressed metal tile roof is not the same as a terracotta roof etc. Moving to a lighter roof is usually a 'quick consent'. You need to check with your council, as I am pretty sure you will find it is required, and if not get it is writing.


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  Reply # 1641442 27-Sep-2016 19:35
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mattwnz:

 

Who told you no consent is required? If you are moving to a different type of roof, it will not be a like for like replacement, so I believe a consent is  required. Usually only if it is a  'like for like' replacement, a consent is not required, but even that can be questionable as technologies change. eg a pressed metal tile roof is not the same as a terracotta roof etc. Moving to a lighter roof is usually a 'quick consent'. You need to check with your council, as I am pretty sure you will find it is required, and if not get it is writing.

 

 

A roofer also told me no need to for consent when I wanted to change from decramastic to long run





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  Reply # 1641445 27-Sep-2016 19:38
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The council said no consent required going to lighter roof, no consent to do repairs. However if entire framework is removed and rebuilt from scratch it would.

I'm not a roofer so i don't know what's acceptable and not. A roofer may refuse to install a new roof that will be crooked because the framework is knackered? The whole timber framework looks skew-whiff to me on all dimensions, zigs and zags and dips but what would i know as I'm not qualified?

To be honest i don't know how quotes work. I'm assuming any hidden things that crop up/unforseen will be at my cost to remedy. That's my worry.

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  Reply # 1641446 27-Sep-2016 19:46
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joker97:

 

A roofer also told me no need to for consent when I wanted to change from decramastic to long run

 

 

Was told the same as well, and went ahead with it too. Going from charcoal coloured decramastic to unpainted zincalume has done so much to stop the heat buildup in the room below it, will do the house once I have other things out of the way.





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  Reply # 1641452 27-Sep-2016 20:27
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joker97:

 

mattwnz:

 

Who told you no consent is required? If you are moving to a different type of roof, it will not be a like for like replacement, so I believe a consent is  required. Usually only if it is a  'like for like' replacement, a consent is not required, but even that can be questionable as technologies change. eg a pressed metal tile roof is not the same as a terracotta roof etc. Moving to a lighter roof is usually a 'quick consent'. You need to check with your council, as I am pretty sure you will find it is required, and if not get it is writing.

 

 

A roofer also told me no need to for consent when I wanted to change from decramastic to long run

 

 

 

 

Roofers often don't know themselves. You shouldn't rely on what roofers say, you should always contact the council and get it in writing. I know a roofer who told their client no consent was needed for a replacement roof, as they said it was like for like replacement, even though it was a different system. They had the work done, but then discovered when they tried to sell the house, that the work should have had a consent . The council didn't agree that the work was 'like for like', as it was a different roofing material. They had to pay to get a COA on it before they could sell it ,which was expensive. If you check with your council you will likely find a consent was needed.

 

 

 

This document tells you what needs and doesn't need a consent.  Although this is for Wellington, councils should be interpreting the rules the same. 

 

http://wellington.govt.nz/~/media/services/consents-and-licenses/building-consents/files/buildconguide.pdf

 

From that document it may be eligible for a 'quick consent', as

 

-replacement of roof cladding with similar or lighter weight (including membranes of Butynol or EDPM up to 40m2 ) 

 

It certainly makes sense that a building consent is needed for a different roofing type, due to weather tightness. A different roofing type will be flashed different etc to the original, and it must then comply with the current building code, so this needs to be checked by the councils building inspectors.

 

 The only difference I can see between a normal building consent and a quick on is that it is faster. eg 5 days it is issued.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1641453 27-Sep-2016 20:30
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Geese: The council said no consent required going to lighter roof, no consent to do repairs. However if entire framework is removed and rebuilt from scratch it would.

I'm not a roofer so i don't know what's acceptable and not. A roofer may refuse to install a new roof that will be crooked because the framework is knackered? The whole timber framework looks skew-whiff to me on all dimensions, zigs and zags and dips but what would i know as I'm not qualified?

To be honest i don't know how quotes work. I'm assuming any hidden things that crop up/unforseen will be at my cost to remedy. That's my worry.

 

 

 

Make sure you get that in writing from the council, as per my post above. It is odd that different councils seem to be interpreting the building code differently. My council though would require a building consent for that work. Don't rely on what the roofer tells you, as if they are wrong you have little comeback. 

 

 

 

With roofing quotes, they are possibly building in a big margin to cover any unknowns. The more info you give them, the more accurate it should be.


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  Reply # 1641483 27-Sep-2016 21:27
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Yes, you need someone to get up in the roof space and check it out first. The quote you get from the roofer is just for replacing your roof with another.
What's likely is your roof has some visible but non-structurally dangerous sag (from the weight of the tiles), and the roofers will just attach the colorsteel to the bowed roof framing.

 

Then the sag's there forever, you'll always notice it. And of course if it's something worse, you'll want to know beforehand.

 

We had a large commercial type shed roof replaced a couple of years back, and decided to go with long run steel & translucent polycarbonate sheeting.
We accepted one of three quotes - which were all based only on the square metrage replacement of the roof, then - luckily - we got the roofer (who was a mate of a mate) to go up & lift some of the old roofing for a look first.
He noticed some purlins (the things the roofing screws down to) had never been correctly attached to the rafters - half the Z nails were missing (this in a 'very high' wind risk area).
We got him to look further, some of the diagonal bracing - galv steel strap, was barely attached, and worse, one of the main steel trusses ended mid air.
Obviously some slackness during the building 25 years ago - and a removal of a structural support some time later..

 

So we arranged for the old roof to be removed, then the roofers pack up & go home.
The next day we replaced the bracing, attached the purlins properly to the rafters and temporarily propped up the truss (it had dropped about 50mm)
Then, early the next morning, the roofing crew came back, put the new roof on and finished up.
Yes, we needed a consent for the re-roof (but we didn't mention any of the other work, as far as we were concerned it was correcting work that the council should have checked on years ago)


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  Reply # 1641851 28-Sep-2016 14:12
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mattwnz:

 

joker97:

 

mattwnz:

 

Who told you no consent is required? If you are moving to a different type of roof, it will not be a like for like replacement, so I believe a consent is  required. Usually only if it is a  'like for like' replacement, a consent is not required, but even that can be questionable as technologies change. eg a pressed metal tile roof is not the same as a terracotta roof etc. Moving to a lighter roof is usually a 'quick consent'. You need to check with your council, as I am pretty sure you will find it is required, and if not get it is writing.

 

 

A roofer also told me no need to for consent when I wanted to change from decramastic to long run

 

 

Roofers often don't know themselves. You shouldn't rely on what roofers say, you should always contact the council and get it in writing. I know a roofer who told their client no consent was needed for a replacement roof, as they said it was like for like replacement, even though it was a different system. They had the work done, but then discovered when they tried to sell the house, that the work should have had a consent . The council didn't agree that the work was 'like for like', as it was a different roofing material. They had to pay to get a COA on it before they could sell it ,which was expensive. If you check with your council you will likely find a consent was needed.

 

This document tells you what needs and doesn't need a consent.  Although this is for Wellington, councils should be interpreting the rules the same. 

 

http://wellington.govt.nz/~/media/services/consents-and-licenses/building-consents/files/buildconguide.pdf

 

From that document it may be eligible for a 'quick consent', as

 

-replacement of roof cladding with similar or lighter weight (including membranes of Butynol or EDPM up to 40m2 ) 

 

It certainly makes sense that a building consent is needed for a different roofing type, due to weather tightness. A different roofing type will be flashed different etc to the original, and it must then comply with the current building code, so this needs to be checked by the councils building inspectors.

 

 The only difference I can see between a normal building consent and a quick on is that it is faster. eg 5 days it is issued.

 

 

^^ This. Check with your Council. Get their response in writing. Keep the response. If you later come to sell, non consented works are likely to be noted on the LIM and/or brought up by unduly risk-averse building inspectors. You will need the response to answer any queries.

 

Schedule 1 of the Building Act contains a list of exemptions to consent. There's a reasonably helpful guide on this here. Less helpful is it won't let me cut and paste text here, so have a look on page 24, where it lists as an example of type of work that may not require consent as replacing a tile roof with a tin roof. So in short, you may or may not need consent.

 

In terms of quotes, they will all be subject to certain assumptions (these may or may not be written, but you're not arguing from a position of strength if you've peeled your roof off and the builder threatens to stop work unless you cough up more money). Unless I've got a clear written statement that a quote includes X, Y and Z contingencies, I treat most quotes as being valid only until the first tool is picked up. 

 

On the flip side, if you insist on a fixed fee, absolutely binding quote, the builder will add on (probably at least) a 25-50% margin to cover the same contingencies.

 

 


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  Reply # 1641874 28-Sep-2016 15:00
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If they have sagging in the existing roof, it will be dealing with the structural nature of the roof, so some new timber structure will likely be needed to fix it. You would need to disclose that to the council when you ask them, as the complete job is a reroof from an alternative product, and some structural remedial work to the roof framing.  
When selling any good building inspector should pick this work up during a pre purchase inspection, and will check the council records that the work was consented and signed off, or you have documentation that it was exempt.


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  Reply # 1641917 28-Sep-2016 16:22
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We had a new roof put on last year. The roofer said the roof was sagging, and sure enough the vertical bits between the boards on the ceiling and the roof beam itself were missing for a 1/4 of the roof. So there was one old beam, (in a 1920's house) carrying the tin for one side of the roof.

 

The roofer spent an extra day and made some new ones and banged them into place.   Just cost us more.

 

 

 

We used green color steel and it looks great, but I notice on many other homes, where just the green color steel roofs have started to lose their color. Its streaking down one half of the sheet




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  Reply # 1642089 28-Sep-2016 21:03
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netspanner:

We had a new roof put on last year. The roofer said the roof was sagging, and sure enough the vertical bits between the boards on the ceiling and the roof beam itself were missing for a 1/4 of the roof. So there was one old beam, (in a 1920's house) carrying the tin for one side of the roof.


The roofer spent an extra day and made some new ones and banged them into place.   Just cost us more.


 


We used green color steel and it looks great, but I notice on many other homes, where just the green color steel roofs have started to lose their color. Its streaking down one half of the sheet



Those boards you refer to, all of them are either completely snapped in half or bent like a banana. Thats whats causing the zip zagging. Not sure what is causing slumping.

As a brick house, I thought green colorsteel looks best, but I've heard stories about green specifically not lasting as well as other colours. I think only suitable alternative to green might be some kind of blue or blueish roof. Otherwise it'll be another depressing drab house in a sea of depressing red brick and gray roofs.

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  Reply # 1642185 29-Sep-2016 00:47
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There was a recall on the Karaka (dark green) coloursteel. So maybe current batches are OK.






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  Reply # 1643500 30-Sep-2016 20:02
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Since there are lots of people on this thread with re-roofing experience, I need to replace my *£^&@*# eave-less 1970s roof with one with eaves, I was thinking of stripping the existing corrugated iron, stacking longer rafters on top of the existing ones to form eaves, and re-roofing with long-run steel. Does anyone have any experience with this, comments on things to watch out for?

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