Advice needed on Ventilation / Heat Recovery systems

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Reply # 1715883 5-Feb-2017 22:15

You can just open the windows, but balanced pressure heat recovery will provide fresh air while keeping your house at the temperature it is, give or take. Cleanaire has a good reputation. Integration of heating and ventilation would make things more complex, but try talking to them, they may have a solution.

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dipper

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Reply # 1715896 5-Feb-2017 23:43

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Hi,

A balance ventilation system such as Cleanaire, which I currently have, works very well in a house that doesn’t leak a lot of air …i.e. doesn’t have a lot of natural ventilation such as leaky windows etc.

I am in the process of starting a build of a SIPs house (currently in design stage with the architect) what I hope will be very air tight so ventilation will be paramount to the comfort level in the house. I have concerns that even though the house will be airtight and in theory need little or no heating I still want a centalised heating that is linked in to the ventilation system. With this, I have been looking at “magic boxes” from the UK with the one that is taking my fancy being the Combi 300 Polar by Nilan. My understanding is this until will adhere to my ventilation requirements with a cross flow heat exchanger while be able to +/- the air temp by 10 degrees with the inbuilt air sourced heat pump with a cop >4.

Still researching this system but it looks like an option.

jonherries

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Reply # 1715922 6-Feb-2017 06:06

Wonder how much the Nylan ones cost here in the UK? What sort of quote/price did you get jn NZ?

ronw

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Reply # 1715926 6-Feb-2017 07:04

You can add in line heating to Cleanable which is helpful if your indoor temp is not heated

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Reply # 1716397 7-Feb-2017 10:31

dipper:

Hi,

A balance ventilation system such as Cleanaire, which I currently have, works very well in a house that doesn’t leak a lot of air …i.e. doesn’t have a lot of natural ventilation such as leaky windows etc.

I am in the process of starting a build of a SIPs house (currently in design stage with the architect) what I hope will be very air tight so ventilation will be paramount to the comfort level in the house. I have concerns that even though the house will be airtight and in theory need little or no heating I still want a centalised heating that is linked in to the ventilation system. With this, I have been looking at “magic boxes” from the UK with the one that is taking my fancy being the Combi 300 Polar by Nilan. My understanding is this until will adhere to my ventilation requirements with a cross flow heat exchanger while be able to +/- the air temp by 10 degrees with the inbuilt air sourced heat pump with a cop >4.

Still researching this system but it looks like an option.

would love to see your progress on this project.

where are you building this by the way?

With relatively mild climate in Auckland I'd imagine once this is set up the energy use would be quite minimal....

I've contacted Nilan on prices of units in UK and it's around 10k at least for a unit to be shipped to Auckland port, and you'd need to pay customs/GST etc on top of it.

dipper

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Reply # 1716452 7-Feb-2017 12:01

The architect is sending of the draft plans to the council this week for a PIM check.

We are hoping to start the building in April.

We are looking at using Magroc for the panel walls at 165mm of thickness and a continues R value of 3.8 with a weatherboard siding. The Roof we are looking at a conquer panel roof that is 100mm thick with an R value of 5 and a structural span of 5 meters. We are looking at this type of roof instead of using the Magroc due to tight recession lines that we have. With this type of build the house should be very air tight and thus ventilation is important, in fact ventilation is important in any house hence why we installed a Cleanair Ventilation systems around 7 years ago in our current house …we have three kids and they are very really sick and I maintain that this is down to a well ventilated house in my opinion.

We are building in Christchurch and here we need warmth in winter.

Both of the above products are based here in Christchurch.

I have read many forums about energy use and with a well designed sips house you should have minimal heating requirements thanks to the little as possible air leaks, look at that house built in Queenstown …1 degree outside and 23 degrees with minimal heating costs.

We are also looking at using thermal dynamic water heater from the Alternative heating company in Nelson. Reading forums in the Uk people are claiming water heating costs averaging 5p a day as the only power that you are using is for the compressor.

Add to this Upvc windows and you should have a nice comfortable house to live in.

Also the notion of building a SIPs house is very foreign to many builders but if you talk to any builders that have built one then they love them …even my architect is now convinced that this is the way to build and is designing his own SIPs house.

ronw

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Reply # 1716459 7-Feb-2017 12:10

Sorry that should read Cleanaire not Cleanable cannot edit original message

ronw: You can add in line heating to Cleanable which is helpful if your indoor temp is not heated

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jmuthu

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Reply # 1722816 19-Feb-2017 21:34

Anyone have any experience with the Smartvent Synergy Plus? sounds like the same technology as what you're talking about - heat exchanger with a heat pump built in. I want a full HVAC in one system, but these just look underpowered for heating/cooling when I look at the numbers from a "traditional" split AC.

tim360

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Reply # 1772160 28-Apr-2017 21:41

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I've spent a lot of time researching these types of systems and have decided on the Mitsi Lossnay + ducted heat pump, it does all of the following:

heating
cooling
fresh-air ventilation
heat-recovery ventilation

We have reticulated gas and looked at gas central heating however it was about the same price as the Mitsi system and only did one of the four things we wanted. Other benefits:

We've kept our woodburner, which was previously our main source of heat, so when using it the heat recovery ventilation (actually it's an ERV) will circulate the heat throughout the house. Previously the lounge was hot and the rest of the house cold.
It gets hot upstairs on sunny days, even in winter. There is a return upstairs so this warm air can be used to heat incoming fresh air and circulate throughout the house to the cooler rooms downstairs.
Fresh air bypass so when the air temp drops in the evenings in the summer months we can blast in fresh cool air before bedtime to drop the house temp without having to use the heat pump for cooling. Kind of like a mechanical night purge.
Heat pump for push button warmth or cooling, no more having to bring the wood in every night.
Continuous ventilation which should remove musty smells and condensation on single glazed windows

It's being installed this weekend so can report back on how it's all going.

Jase2985

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Reply # 1772163 28-Apr-2017 21:45

@tim360 What sized heatpump did you go for? what about the lossnay unit? how many vent outlet and inlet vents?

If you dont mind answering how much are the units?

and very interested to see how it goes

tim360

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Reply # 1772172 28-Apr-2017 22:15

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@jase2985 we've gone for the PEAD-RP100 11.2kw (heating) ducted unit, LGH-15RVX-E Lossnay unit with 4 ceiling outlets (downstairs), 2 wall outlets (upstairs) and 2 returns (1 downstairs and 1 upstairs).

All up $12.5k incl Wifi adaptor.

Bit of a capital outlay but we're treating it as a luxury item to make our lives more comfortable so not getting too hung up on return on investment.

Jase2985

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Reply # 1772181 28-Apr-2017 22:26

@tim360 thanks for that, we are looking to build so its something we need to look into before we go too far down the road.

tim360

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Reply # 1772193 28-Apr-2017 22:47

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@jase2985 that's great you can incorporate a system into your new house design. Our's is a difficult retrofit. I'd recommend you talk to an installer as part of your house design process as they can make suggestions which might make installation easier and provide better performance.

tim360

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Reply # 1779756 11-May-2017 16:49

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Jase2985:

@tim360 What sized heatpump did you go for? what about the lossnay unit? how many vent outlet and inlet vents?

If you dont mind answering how much are the units?

and very interested to see how it goes

Ok after 2 weeks in I can summarise my experience so far:

The thing is a beast, the installers did a great job, ducting everywhere in the roof space!
The musty smell we used to get in the spare room went within the first few days
No more condensation on the windows in the mornings
It's dead quite, unless you're standing under the big return vent downstairs or you've got your head in front of an outlet vent.
While it hasn't been that cold we had a few sub 10deg nights so was able to crank it up. It heats up the whole house within minutes.
The house is noticeably warmer when just running on ventilation mode, most nights we haven't even needed the heat on. I've attributed this to the Lossnay unit returning the sun warmed air from the upstairs lounge (easily the warmest room in the house) and effectively circulating this warm air throughout the house via the heat exchange system.
Running in ventilation mode with the wood burner going also better distributes the heat around the house.

We did have to get the installers back to change the temperature control sensor from the return intake to the controller unit in the hallway. This temp more accurately represents the average temp in the house.

They also had to put in an inline dampener into the master bedroom ducting upstairs as it was getting a bit too hot. We can easily open it up fully when summer comes round when we'll want more airflow.

The system now feels well balanced with no hot spots or cold spots.

Next step is to monitor power usage and test if running as needed (mornings and nights) or 24x7 is more efficient.

shim99

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Reply # 1782755 15-May-2017 20:12

tim360:

@jase2985 we've gone for the PEAD-RP100 11.2kw (heating) ducted unit, LGH-15RVX-E Lossnay unit with 4 ceiling outlets (downstairs), 2 wall outlets (upstairs) and 2 returns (1 downstairs and 1 upstairs).

All up $12.5k incl Wifi adaptor.

Bit of a capital outlay but we're treating it as a luxury item to make our lives more comfortable so not getting too hung up on return on investment.

Hi @tim360,

We are looking at getting a very similar setup installed. The price of $12.5k is about $4k cheaper than we are getting quoted in Wellington. The Lossnay unit is being priced at $4k alone

Can you let me know who you used?

Cheers

Simon.

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