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14825 posts

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  # 1734969 11-Mar-2017 19:40
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When I was looking at it, all the companies recommended a HW Heat pump to heat the water. Or using diesel, but that isn't very Eco friendly. A wetback fire is most effective if it is Installed close to the cylinder, otherwise the cost benefit is greatly reduced. However when they ran the numbers, it had quite a high daily cost to use even using a HW heatpump.

14825 posts

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  # 1734971 11-Mar-2017 19:43
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pipe60:

Well worth putting the piping in the slab. try these guys for a quote for parts and install yourself.


http://www.waitoki.co.nz/Hydronic.php


We payed less then that for 350m2 with two floor manifolds.


Maybe a hot water heat pump for the heat source?


Are you doing 140mm framing?



What sort of pricing for piping a house? Problem could be concractors cutting sawcuts or Cutting holes in the slab where the pipes are. Also if you make a mistake with the piping it could all be a waste of money, as very difficult to fix after the slab is poorer.

 
 
 
 


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Master Geek
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  # 1735001 11-Mar-2017 20:15
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I installed the tubing myself very easy to do. Requires a spinning jenny and a lot of cable ties. We marked out all the walls on the mesh to avoid the builders putting holes in the tube. All the saw cuts were planed in advance to not go near tubes or put where the walls were going. Once the tubes are done they were pressure tested and left with pressure in them for weeks after the concrete pour was completed. Every room has its own circuit so a fault on one tube does not stop the rest of the system from working. I believe faulty tubes can be traced using a thermal camera if required.




22 posts

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  # 1735311 12-Mar-2017 15:05
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ludez: Off topic but how come you decided to build in hikuai?
I'm originally from tairua

 

 

 

Family nearby and a small addition to our immediate family :)


563 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 1735351 12-Mar-2017 17:17
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If house is to be wood framed, consider using 140mm framing instead of 90mm. Gets you an extra 50mm of insulation in the exterior walls for not too much extra outlay.

 

 


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  # 1735489 13-Mar-2017 01:39
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EmmaOffshore:

 

 We're wondering about installing solar HW in future if money allows.

 

We'll look into the lines companies though - we're not on a plan with night rates at the moment so hadn't even thought of that.

 

Couple of the rooms in the slab will have little solar gain. An installer has suggested we *might* get some movement of heat in the underfloor pipes to the less warm areas if we install them and fill with water and don't hook up a heating source in the short term, so could be worth a gamble.

 

 

 

 

A really large cylinder is perfect for solar hot water. Although nowdays you are better to get solar PV, and configure the system to dump excess solar electricity to the cylinder heating element instead of exporting it. So you are using the cylinder like a really big battery. And way cheaper than a Tesla powerwall as well.

 

You can still use the wetback to both feed the underfloor heating and heat the hot water cylinder. You could even do a system with a cylinder heated by solar PV with excess fed to cylinder, wetback fire, and finally grid power. It would be a killer setup if you can get free firewood. As heating + hot water would be virtually free. And power bills would be lower.








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  # 1735573 13-Mar-2017 10:24
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k1w1k1d:

 

If house is to be wood framed, consider using 140mm framing instead of 90mm. Gets you an extra 50mm of insulation in the exterior walls for not too much extra outlay.

 

 

 

 

Yup definitely going down the 140mm framing route :)


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Master Geek
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  # 1735714 13-Mar-2017 13:16
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Looked at a place in Levin a few weeks ago, and they mostly had exposed polished concrete floors with some rugs

 

but they had a in floor HW piping system back to  a hall cupboard with taps to isolate what areas you didn't want to use,

 

all heated by a heat-pump system




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  # 1736404 14-Mar-2017 16:36
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Aredwood:

 

EmmaOffshore:

 

 We're wondering about installing solar HW in future if money allows.

 

 

 

 

A really large cylinder is perfect for solar hot water. Although nowdays you are better to get solar PV, and configure the system to dump excess solar electricity to the cylinder heating element instead of exporting it. So you are using the cylinder like a really big battery. And way cheaper than a Tesla powerwall as well.

 

You can still use the wetback to both feed the underfloor heating and heat the hot water cylinder. You could even do a system with a cylinder heated by solar PV with excess fed to cylinder, wetback fire, and finally grid power. It would be a killer setup if you can get free firewood. As heating + hot water would be virtually free. And power bills would be lower.

 

 

A Solar PV, wetback fed into a cylinder heating element seems like an ideal situation but our budget isn't going to stretch to that at the moment. In order to allow us to look into that again a few years down the line I'm guessing we'd need to future proof by adding the UFH pipes, having somewhere set aside for a potential cylinder and probably I guess install the wetback pipes too?

 

I might start asking that question of some of the install companies. The UFH people we've spoken to so far aren't keen on solar and wetbacks being part of the equation as not cost effective or possibly not what they sell... 


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  # 1736422 14-Mar-2017 17:16
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We have underfloor and for us the problem is responsiveness. Depending on your level of insulation and sun, you might find the same. Turn on heating and it takes a few hours to get the floor warm. Turn it off and the heat remains for a few hours.

 

When it's really cold and we're home all day and want it warm, underfloor is lovely. But that's just a few days a year for us. Most days are cold in the morning but warm up soon after. To get the slab warm takes a few hours of heating, and if it's a sunny day then by mid-morning there's too much heat and you're wasting the energy.

 

 




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  # 1736426 14-Mar-2017 17:32
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Chis:

 

We have underfloor and for us the problem is responsiveness. Depending on your level of insulation and sun, you might find the same. Turn on heating and it takes a few hours to get the floor warm. Turn it off and the heat remains for a few hours.

 

When it's really cold and we're home all day and want it warm, underfloor is lovely. But that's just a few days a year for us. Most days are cold in the morning but warm up soon after. To get the slab warm takes a few hours of heating, and if it's a sunny day then by mid-morning there's too much heat and you're wasting the energy.

 

 

 

 

Thanks Chis, interesting to hear. So guess you don't use it most of the time?


14825 posts

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  # 1736428 14-Mar-2017 17:37
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Chis:

 

We have underfloor and for us the problem is responsiveness. Depending on your level of insulation and sun, you might find the same. Turn on heating and it takes a few hours to get the floor warm. Turn it off and the heat remains for a few hours.

 

When it's really cold and we're home all day and want it warm, underfloor is lovely. But that's just a few days a year for us. Most days are cold in the morning but warm up soon after. To get the slab warm takes a few hours of heating, and if it's a sunny day then by mid-morning there's too much heat and you're wasting the energy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes that is the conclusion I came to with this system too. I presume it would work well down south. But in the NI, the times you need full day heating is only a handful of days. 


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Ultimate Geek
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  # 1736444 14-Mar-2017 18:16

My understanding is that underfloor heating is better suited for northern hemisphere areas where it is freezing cold for days or months on end.


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  # 1736467 14-Mar-2017 19:07
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k1w1k1d:

 

My understanding is that underfloor heating is better suited for northern hemisphere areas where it is freezing cold for days or months on end.

 

 

 

 

Or Invercargill/ Dunedin  area :) I spent a long time determining whether it was worth it for a new build I am working on at the moment. The cost to install was going to work out at about 60k with a totally automated system off water heating heatpumps. Instead decided to go with a multiunit heat pump running off a large single compressor, so you don't get ugly boxes all round the house. Also going for wood burners as well. This means you get heat when you want it without having to plan.  Also get cooling for summer.  It was also supposedly going to cost over $20 per day to run the underfloor heating system. Then there were also maintenance charges for flashing out the tubes etc. But I would look at underfloor heating if I was to do a small house, and was doing alot of the install myself. It just didn't work out on a large house.


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  # 1745844 22-Mar-2017 14:07
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mattwnz:

 

k1w1k1d:

 

My understanding is that underfloor heating is better suited for northern hemisphere areas where it is freezing cold for days or months on end.

 

 

 

 

Or Invercargill/ Dunedin  area :) I spent a long time determining whether it was worth it for a new build I am working on at the moment. The cost to install was going to work out at about 60k with a totally automated system off water heating heatpumps. Instead decided to go with a multiunit heat pump running off a large single compressor, so you don't get ugly boxes all round the house. Also going for wood burners as well. This means you get heat when you want it without having to plan.  Also get cooling for summer.  It was also supposedly going to cost over $20 per day to run the underfloor heating system. Then there were also maintenance charges for flashing out the tubes etc. But I would look at underfloor heating if I was to do a small house, and was doing alot of the install myself. It just didn't work out on a large house.

 

 

 

 

What part of Otago/Southland are you in @mattwnz?  About to build in Mosgiel, and a Hydronic UFH system is less than $20k (including the heating of all domestic HW).


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