At what point does DIY electrical work become illegal?

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Coil

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#1792938 1-Jun-2017 10:05

xpd:

TimA:

You most likely will find the fan (That would have been added later) is wired from the light base itself.
As an Ex Domestic Sparkie this was very common for people to want to change.
Also note that people usually do this for tennants as they want the fan on when the light is on!

Our ensuite is setup with separate switches for the fan and light, but Id prefer the single switch option - the fan switch is setup at the moment so theres about a 2 min delay before it actually comes on, so if youre only popping (almost typed pooping) in and out of it, then it wouldnt kick in anyway...... but SWMBO prefers how it is.

And then tells me off for not running the fan........

Yep you're damned if you do and damned if you dont!
Two switches would be ideal for when your popping in for a quick poop but the fan doesnt come on, But you wouldn't want to take that chance of leaving the fan on!
Maybe have a press button for the fan?

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Paul1977

4981 posts

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#1792940 1-Jun-2017 10:06

richms:

If you have old stuff in metal conduits then IMO you should be not allowed to have power connected until it is replaced. Thankfully insurance industry is finally catching onto it and will refuse cover on places with it so people cant get mortgage to buy them, but there are still plenty of houses out there with disintigrating wiring in them which are allowed to have power connected.

About 2/3 of the house is TPS, and it is on the list to replace the rest, although all the bits I've seen look in pretty good nick still so hasn't been top priority. While the sparky is out sorting the fan I'll most likely get that whole circuit replaced though.

cadman

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#1792955 1-Jun-2017 10:30

Ge0rge:If you do the wiring, whether you are legally able to or not, and you have a fire - even unrelated - will your insurance pay out if they discover it?

Yes - they will have to. There is a requirement of materiality.

solutionz

589 posts

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#1793016 1-Jun-2017 11:31

These sorts of questions are essentially moot.

Simply put if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't do it.

If you ("really") know what you're doing, and nothing goes wrong then there won't be a problem as an electrical safety inspector won't materialize out of nowhere to tell you off.

If your house however burns down etc as a result (of you obviously not knowing what you're doing) then the more pertinent question is whether you can justify to insurance / fire / coroner that you weren't at fault or at least were acting lawfully - and are you willing to take that risk?

As far as legality goes in regards to a home owner:

Replacing a switch like-for-like - No problem.
Replacing a single switch plate with double (involves rewiring and possibly bridging switches) - Grey area, ref above (no a problem until there's a problem).
Running a new cable directly from fan to switch - Not OK (prescribed electrical work).

Your insurance status is a question for your insurer.

I did something very similar earlier this week; moved 2x sets of lights + fan in bathroom from 1x switch to 2x.

Discovered the main active feed was joined to the rest by twisting & wrapped in electrical tape so I remedied that and did it all properly making it significantly safer. Obviously knew what I was doing; had the appropriate tools inc voltage tester (test-measure-test etc), isolated mains - no problem and happy to take the risk.

Fred99

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#1793024 1-Jun-2017 11:45

solutionz:

Discovered the main active feed was joined to the rest by twisting & wrapped in electrical tape.

This is the kind of thing that gives DIYers a bad name. If you're going to break the law, at least try to do it safely.

OTOH the only "belt" I've given myself in recent years was after some builders had attached some ply to the outside of our house with screws - as part of temporary earthquake repairs, missed a stud and put a screw straight through the phase wire on a light circuit. Some time later, I'm touching the ply and thought I felt a tingle - and in an act of dumbness put my finger on the head of the screw. Glad I wasn't on a ladder. The guy who put the screw in probably was - but presumably the light was turned off. No RCDs in this old house (something I'll remedy when my son gets his electrical registration).

Always lots of talk about dumb things done, but I'd wager that most electrocutions are from misused/badly maintained appliances etc, and most electrical related fires aren't from fixed wiring, but people using heaters dangerously, forgetting to turn the element off under the frypan - and again poorly maintained or defective appliances.

Bung

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#1793029 1-Jun-2017 12:08

Fred99:
Always lots of talk about dumb things done, but I'd wager that most electrocutions are from misused/badly maintained appliances etc, and most electrical related fires aren't from fixed wiring, but people using heaters dangerously, forgetting to turn the element off under the frypan - and again poorly maintained or defective appliances.

That is pretty much the conclusion of a report "Electrical Wiring Systems and Fire Risk in Residential Dwellings" done for Energy Safety Service in 2005.

Screw terminals not being done up tight can be another form of heater at the end of the cicuit.

1101

3120 posts

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#1793081 1-Jun-2017 13:38

"if the house burns down" .... pfft

the insurance company may be looking at ALL the wiring , sockets , plugs, switchboards, fans etc
All of which has somehow remained intact after the fire that leveled the house

:-)

What happens when a new owner or tenant arrives, not knowing about all the DIY electrical work. I think thats
the bigger issue .
We now have to assume that unless the house is new, wiring may be suspect, due to DIY ?

Paul1977

4981 posts

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#1793094 1-Jun-2017 13:51

I'd only ever do anything I knew I could do safely, and that was legal for me to do... hence the original question. I knew I could do it safely, but wasn't sure about the legality so wanted to find out. In my instance it seems that it wouldn't be legal for me to do it myself, so I will be getting a sparky.

solutionz

589 posts

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#1793098 1-Jun-2017 13:54

1101:

"if the house burns down" .... pfft

the insurance company may be looking at ALL the wiring , sockets , plugs, switchboards, fans etc
All of which has somehow remained intact after the fire that leveled the house

:-)

What happens when a new owner or tenant arrives, not knowing about all the DIY electrical work. I think thats
the bigger issue .
We now have to assume that unless the house is new, wiring may be suspect, due to DIY ?

Probably... to a certain extent... as with anything you'd apply a healthy degree of caution.

It wouldn't be a silly idea at all to give every socket in your new house at the very least a quick test with a $20 polarity/earth/RCD tester.

richms

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#1793120 1-Jun-2017 14:24

That is why insurance companies are requiring wiring inspections before providing cover on really old houses (villas etc) since they seem to be the worst of the lot for bodge job wiring additions ontop of vintage cabling.

If you have a trailer/motorhome that has power in it, you need a periodic electrical WOF on it to be able to legally use it, yet houses for some reason are allowed to remain connected to the grid no matter how deteriorated the wiring is. It's only when there is a disconnection for a long period that any inspection happens, which most people do not live in a house without power connected for months on end so never happens except for derillect structures.

Richard rich.ms

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