use GPS to find fencing boundaries ?

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traderstu

174 posts

Master Geek

# 1795112 6-Jun-2017 08:12

Can you find at least 1 survey peg somewhere on the boundary? If so a bit of time spent with a compass & long tape measure will give you a fairly accurate result. Just navigate your way right around the perimeter - if you end up back at the starting point you know you have got it right.

Disrespective

1846 posts

Uber Geek

# 1795159 6-Jun-2017 10:19

I've looked at a lot of surveys over my career, and none have ever used GPS coordinates for locations. You're more likely reading a spot height from a datum point.

Without a peg to define an exact boundary point (which by the way it is illegal to tamper with) you would need a registered surveyor to undertake a survey and give a definitive answer that you can take to a court if things sour.

Many (all?) councils in NZ would need your neighbour to apply for rights to build over any of their services.

Bung

3045 posts

Uber Geek

# 1795207 6-Jun-2017 10:57

The datum point on the road reserve at home was shifted recently. When the new one was concreted in they came out with a GPS device to establish its position. It would have taken less than 10 minutes if the wind hadn't kept moving the tape dropped down to establish the height of the GPS above the stud.

gzt

10978 posts

Uber Geek

# 1795662 6-Jun-2017 23:32

lapimate:
1101: ... Neither of us will want to pay the big $ for a proper survey, ...
But you will need only 1 boundary line verified by a certified surveyor won't you, ie not a full survey? Not expensive in my experience, and besides neighbour will have to share the cost because they cannot proceed without a survey if you object and they can't point out the boundary pegs. Being too forgiving may give you problems later if you ever want to sell your property.

What is the reason they can't proceed if there is a boundary objection?

I imagine the council would grant the consent based on the plan. I'm assuming a consent is required.

mattwnz

15269 posts

Uber Geek

# 1795673 7-Jun-2017 00:49

Disrespective:

I've looked at a lot of surveys over my career, and none have ever used GPS coordinates for locations. You're more likely reading a spot height from a datum point.

Yeah I think the number is the height above sea level.

Bung

3045 posts

Uber Geek

# 1795680 7-Jun-2017 06:00

Alternatively the horizontal distance in metres between 2 points. The width of my section is shown as 17.51

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

# 1796115 7-Jun-2017 19:24

lapimate:

1101: ... Neither of us will want to pay the big $ for a proper survey, ...
But you will need only 1 boundary line verified by a certified surveyor won't you, ie not a full survey? Not expensive in my experience, and besides neighbour will have to share the cost because they cannot proceed without a survey if you object and they can't point out the boundary pegs. Being too forgiving may give you problems later if you ever want to sell your property.

I would also like to know more about this. As I need to get a fence built soon on 1 of my boundaries. And that neighbour will object any way they can on costs. But no boundary pegs, so needs a survey before the fence goes in. I know about the fencing act, but it doesn't say anything about survey costs. So is there some law that I can use to force my neighbour to pay for 1/2 of the survey costs?

Disrespective

1846 posts

Uber Geek

# 1796477 8-Jun-2017 10:19

Aredwood:

I would also like to know more about this. As I need to get a fence built soon on 1 of my boundaries. And that neighbour will object any way they can on costs. But no boundary pegs, so needs a survey before the fence goes in. I know about the fencing act, but it doesn't say anything about survey costs. So is there some law that I can use to force my neighbour to pay for 1/2 of the survey costs?

Read this. https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/fencing-law You can serve them with a fencing notice, and if they don't object or respond within 21 days they are liable for half the cost. If they don't pay then it can go to mediation/small claims court. This only applies if you want to build a fence on the common boundary. If you build it even 1mm inside of your boundary then they have no obligation to pay, but also no rights to reject. You would be well advised to have a very good idea of the boundary locations if you go this route as if any dispute arises, you need to be squeaky clean.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

# 1796824 8-Jun-2017 17:17

Disrespective:

Aredwood:

I would also like to know more about this. As I need to get a fence built soon on 1 of my boundaries. And that neighbour will object any way they can on costs. But no boundary pegs, so needs a survey before the fence goes in. I know about the fencing act, but it doesn't say anything about survey costs. So is there some law that I can use to force my neighbour to pay for 1/2 of the survey costs?

Read this. https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/fencing-law You can serve them with a fencing notice, and if they don't object or respond within 21 days they are liable for half the cost. If they don't pay then it can go to mediation/small claims court. This only applies if you want to build a fence on the common boundary. If you build it even 1mm inside of your boundary then they have no obligation to pay, but also no rights to reject. You would be well advised to have a very good idea of the boundary locations if you go this route as if any dispute arises, you need to be squeaky clean.

Problem is, that doesn't say anything about surveying costs. I have not been able to find anything that says either way if surveying costs are an allowable expense or not for building a fence.

1101

1944 posts

Uber Geek

# 1797127 9-Jun-2017 10:45

Common sense would say that survey cost is part of the fencing cost ?
If its disputed , then disputes tribunal should rule on common sense interpretation ?

1101

1944 posts

Uber Geek

# 1797158 9-Jun-2017 11:00

just an update on my original question

I went to the Local Council office. They printed out their Arial view with an overlay of stormwater & wastewater pipes/steams/manholes
Her opinion was the manhole was on my side , as clearly shown on the council printout.
She also said the neighbor definitely cannot build anything over any of this , and remarked "and they will wonder why they get into trouble over it"

So I have something definite to show the neighbour .
His accurate laser sighting was obviously way off, lining the laser up by eyeball isnt the way to do things .

At least this will hopefully put a stop to his nutty plan of building over stormwater streams, pipes & manholes

shermanp

342 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

# 1797234 9-Jun-2017 12:14

1101:

just an update on my original question

I went to the Local Council office. They printed out their Arial view with an overlay of stormwater & wastewater pipes/steams/manholes
Her opinion was the manhole was on my side , as clearly shown on the council printout.
She also said the neighbor definitely cannot build anything over any of this , and remarked "and they will wonder why they get into trouble over it"

So I have something definite to show the neighbour .
His accurate laser sighting was obviously way off, lining the laser up by eyeball isnt the way to do things .

At least this will hopefully put a stop to his nutty plan of building over stormwater streams, pipes & manholes

Having worked with council aerial photography and GIS information before, I will warn you now that there is no guarantee that it is any more accurate than the laser sighting. I believe the aerial photograph itself may not line up with the coordinate systems by several meters. Also, depending on the age of the property, the council plans/GIS could have come from quick scans of old paper plans into the GIS system, and can therefore only be considered an approximation...

In short, council plans often can't be relied upon. The only way to know for certain is by a proper survey.

wellygary

4183 posts

Uber Geek

# 1797251 9-Jun-2017 12:30

shermanp:

1101:

just an update on my original question

I went to the Local Council office. They printed out their Arial view with an overlay of stormwater & wastewater pipes/steams/manholes
Her opinion was the manhole was on my side , as clearly shown on the council printout.
She also said the neighbor definitely cannot build anything over any of this , and remarked "and they will wonder why they get into trouble over it"

So I have something definite to show the neighbour .
His accurate laser sighting was obviously way off, lining the laser up by eyeball isnt the way to do things .

At least this will hopefully put a stop to his nutty plan of building over stormwater streams, pipes & manholes

Having worked with council aerial photography and GIS information before, I will warn you now that there is no guarantee that it is any more accurate than the laser sighting. I believe the aerial photograph itself may not line up with the coordinate systems by several meters. Also, depending on the age of the property, the council plans/GIS could have come from quick scans of old paper plans into the GIS system, and can therefore only be considered an approximation...

In short, council plans often can't be relied upon. The only way to know for certain is by a proper survey.

Yeah, but in this case a printout from the Council is likely to dissuade the neighbour from their immediate plans, - and would force them to do a proper survey if they want to proceed--- which I think is the required outcome

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