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  Reply # 1846652 14-Aug-2017 20:08
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Do you need to get dirt removed? If so - dump fees for the dirt.








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  Reply # 1846681 14-Aug-2017 20:24
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timmmay:

 

You'd get a laborer for $30/hr, not a builder.  Also people tend to underestimate time required.

 

 

Trademe is your friend @Ropata

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/building-renovation/building-supplies/timber/other/auction-1392721489.htm

 

That's T&G and in Christchurch, but should be cheaper for plain in Auckland. 


 
 
 
 




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  Reply # 1846684 14-Aug-2017 20:30
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timmmay:

 

You'd get a laborer for $30/hr, not a builder.  Also people tend to underestimate time required.

 

 

@timmmay over the last 12 months I've spent over $400k on building projects, trust me I know those numbers. Master builder $80, hammer hand or  apprentice $30-$40 (the $40 guy almost as good as the MB, the $30 guy easily competent to build retaining walls) labourer $25 is what I've been paying.

 

Those labourers were through AWF so the poor blighters were probably only getting $18 after AWF took a cut.

 

 

 

 




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  Reply # 1846685 14-Aug-2017 20:33
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Aredwood:

 

Do you need to get dirt removed? If so - dump fees for the dirt.

 

 

Good point but hopefully not - will be building some areas up to the level of the wall by scraping back some other areas. 

 

But my main interest at this stage of the project is getting a baseline comparison for build it myself (with hired labour) vs get someone to do an all in one build. So the dump fee if applicable is applicable to both. As it happens the local landscape supplies guys allow dumping of clean fill at their yard for way less than most places (NZ Landscape Supplies, Marua Rd Auckland).

 

Which reminds me - @Ropata commented on scoria, drainflow and sock which from NZ Landscape Supplies website I can estimate at Scoria 6.5m3 @ $70 $455 ouch, and that's being economical. Drainflow 30m $179, sock $53. 

 

 




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  Reply # 1846688 14-Aug-2017 20:45
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Interesting comparison here for gabion retaining - steel baskets of stone that basically sit on the ground and use their own weight to retain:

 

http://www.gabions.co.nz/Timber_Retaining_Wall.htm

 

Personally I like their look but I suspect it's not for everyone.

 

But they seem good value. Anyone seen these things in the flesh?

 

 


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  Reply # 1846704 14-Aug-2017 21:23
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kryptonjohn:

Interesting comparison here for gabion retaining - steel baskets of stone that basically sit on the ground and use their own weight to retain:


http://www.gabions.co.nz/Timber_Retaining_Wall.htm


Personally I like their look but I suspect it's not for everyone.


But they seem good value. Anyone seen these things in the flesh?


 


Something similar is used extensively for road retaining both above and below roads.

Cant think of anywhere specific I've seen it now...




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  Reply # 1846706 14-Aug-2017 21:25
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Are they delivered as is? That will require a crane. They also will take up a lot more room meaning digging out a lot more to gain the space you want at the front side.


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  Reply # 1846707 14-Aug-2017 21:27
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Ropata:

 

Are they delivered as is? That will require a crane. They also will take up a lot more room meaning digging out a lot more to gain the space you want at the front side.

 

 

they are delivered as the steel cages, and are empty, the stones are delivered separately.


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  Reply # 1846726 14-Aug-2017 21:37
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kryptonjohn:

Interesting comparison here for gabion retaining - steel baskets of stone that basically sit on the ground and use their own weight to retain:


http://www.gabions.co.nz/Timber_Retaining_Wall.htm


Personally I like their look but I suspect it's not for everyone.


But they seem good value. Anyone seen these things in the flesh?


 



They have been used on the side of the buildings in the Wellington rail electrification upgrade prior to the Matangi units being deployed. They look good, they have also got some sort of vine growing on them.

As mentioned above, also seen them on roadways. Often above streams / below the road itself.



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  Reply # 1846727 14-Aug-2017 21:37
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Yeah delivered flat pack you assemble on site then pour in the ballast. I think you can hire a machine for that.



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  Reply # 1846728 14-Aug-2017 21:41
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Ropata:

Are they delivered as is? That will require a crane. They also will take up a lot more room meaning digging out a lot more to gain the space you want at the front side.


Empty flat packs as discussed. But you are correct they need more site prep, mainly excavate a level base to sit on. Experienced excavator driver can probably do that very quickly. No base or substrate required they can sit on the clay.

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  Reply # 1846731 14-Aug-2017 21:54
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Yeah as others have said - all in costs are way more than just materials and labour and could potentially include:

 

  • Preliminary and General - Bonds, insurances, service location and protection, H&S requirements etc.
  • Design - incl:

     

    • Site investigations e.g. geotech assessments.
    • Structural design.
    • Drawings / CAD.
    • Producer Statements.
  • Consents (Building and or RC).
  • Inspections and sign-off - by Council and potentially your engineer.
  • Plant - diggers / piling or drilling rigs / compacters / tools etc.
  • Access.
  • Subbies.
  • TIME - Skilled and Unskilled (As others have said tends to get under estimated by novice/DIY types.)
  • Waste material disposal.
  • Reinstatement.
  • Allowances for unforeseen conditions and risk allowance for sh%t that goes wrong.
  • On site overheads.
  • Off site overheads.
  • And hopefully - PROFIT MARGIN on all of the above. (Noting that for some jobs you may make no profit, so you may want to increase this in general i.e. to allow for the swings and roundabouts of being in business).

 

 

So yeah - sh&t adds up!

 

 

 

Re Rocks in a Basket aka - Gabions - They are used in infrastructure projects a lot as they are relatively quick and can be built with relatively low skilled labour and where access may be challenging ....but they are wide so take up a lot of room - and are just a bit too ugly for most peoples backyard.

 

I don't have rates available, but they will likely be more expensive than a typical timber pole retaining wall for most residential situations.

 

 




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  Reply # 1846732 14-Aug-2017 22:01
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Yep they don't know this until they see the site but almost none of that applies as not more than 1.5m high. It's just some simple back yard landscape retaining.
Profit margin built into the labour cost plus say 15% on material so I still can't bridge the $10k gap.

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  Reply # 1846746 14-Aug-2017 22:25
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Your est profit margin is way short of current market....some (admittedly big boy) contractors like up to 20% for off-site and 20% for on-site overheads - so 40% all up - AND this applies to all costs - not just labour.

 

 

 

 

 

 




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  Reply # 1846749 14-Aug-2017 22:32
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Nah, Builders I know and have used recently are 15% margin for material and subbies they arrange etc and their labour is simply as stated.

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