Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 


14350 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1866


  Reply # 2057239 16-Jul-2018 16:18
Send private message quote this post

Lastman: The 2005 homeowner guide states, not less than 1.2m and not more than 2.0m. Now that may have changed but I would assume the mimimum height is to keep out of reach of children and the maximum to ensure easy access in emergency and for servicing.

 

I don't know what that document is , or where they are getting the information from, and if they have references in it that refer back to the relevant NZ standard . I am guessing it is just a very basic non technical guide.  But lines companies meterbox installation instructions for electricians I have seen, say the bottom of the box must be between 1.0 - 1.2 metres, which would contradict it. 


184 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 44


  Reply # 2057246 16-Jul-2018 16:50
Send private message quote this post

mattwnz:

Lastman: The 2005 homeowner guide states, not less than 1.2m and not more than 2.0m. Now that may have changed but I would assume the mimimum height is to keep out of reach of children and the maximum to ensure easy access in emergency and for servicing.


I don't know what that document is , or where they are getting the information from, and if they have references in it that refer back to the relevant NZ standard . I am guessing it is just a very basic non technical guide.  But lines companies meterbox installation instructions for electricians I have seen, say the bottom of the box must be between 1.0 - 1.2 metres, which would contradict it. 



They would have come from the standards at the time it was written but the point is they are generally there for a safety reason.

184 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 44


  Reply # 2057261 16-Jul-2018 17:03
Send private message quote this post

You could try asking a question on :https://www.electricalforum.co.nz/

Some of the people on there are involved in writing the rules so should be able to give you a correct interpretation.



14350 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1866


  Reply # 2057274 16-Jul-2018 18:31
Send private message quote this post

Lastman: You could try asking a question on :https://www.electricalforum.co.nz/

Some of the people on there are involved in writing the rules so should be able to give you a correct interpretation.

 

 

 

Thanks, yes I did check that site out before, and it even discussed a similar topic here

 

https://www.electricalforum.co.nz/index.php?action=more_details&id=1426235710 

 

 

 

https://www.electricalforum.co.nz/index.php?action=more_details&id=1397693765

 

 

 

The site also said the height was generally set by the retailer, but my retailer says they have no rules on it, nor does my  lines company. But many lines companies do have rules, and all the ones I have seen state in writing that the meterbox can be between 1 metre and 1.2 metres, which contradicts these electrical inspectors. . I don't disagree that it could be due to health and safety with children etc although that isn't stated as the reason. I think it is partly accessibility so meter readers don't have to bend down too far. But I could give them a chair to use, so they can sit down and work at it.  I think common sense needs to be followed when there is ambiguity like this. 


1597 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 332

Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 2057300 16-Jul-2018 20:12
Send private message quote this post

mattwnz:

 

Lastman: You could try asking a question on :https://www.electricalforum.co.nz/

Some of the people on there are involved in writing the rules so should be able to give you a correct interpretation.

 

 

 

Thanks, yes I did check that site out before, and it even discussed a similar topic here

 

https://www.electricalforum.co.nz/index.php?action=more_details&id=1426235710 

 

 

 

https://www.electricalforum.co.nz/index.php?action=more_details&id=1397693765

 

 

 

The site also said the height was generally set by the retailer, but my retailer says they have no rules on it, nor does my  lines company. But many lines companies do have rules, and all the ones I have seen state in writing that the meterbox can be between 1 metre and 1.2 metres, which contradicts these electrical inspectors. . I don't disagree that it could be due to health and safety with children etc although that isn't stated as the reason. I think it is partly accessibility so meter readers don't have to bend down too far. But I could give them a chair to use, so they can sit down and work at it.  I think common sense needs to be followed when there is ambiguity like this. 

 

 

The difference here is between the rules and the law (this also includes the standards cited by the law in this case AS/NZS 3000:2007), all the electrical inspectors are concerned with is what the law says, the law does not set a minimum height for a meter box, but the rules of the lines company may set a height, the retail company may also require that you comply with the lines company rules if you want to buy power from them.

 

Basically if you want to play in the sandpit owned by the lines company you have to follow their rules, don't like them, find another sandpit, or build your own sandpit....... they may not fit with want you want, but sometimes you just have to suck it up and play nice

 

 

 

 


184 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 44


  Reply # 2057328 16-Jul-2018 21:16
Send private message quote this post

“The minimum height of a meter box is not contained in the Wiring Rules.

The only time that the Wring Rules would come into lay would be if the main switchboard or a distribution switchboard was contained in a common enclosure.”

That’s a quote from the Electrical Forum. Wiring rules means standards.

Perhaps you could diplomatically ask if the installers/inspectors are simply applying the distribution panel rule to meter boxes or if it is actually a requirement of local power company.



14350 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1866


  Reply # 2057486 16-Jul-2018 23:36
Send private message quote this post

gregmcc:

 

mattwnz:

 

Lastman: You could try asking a question on :https://www.electricalforum.co.nz/

Some of the people on there are involved in writing the rules so should be able to give you a correct interpretation.

 

 

 

Thanks, yes I did check that site out before, and it even discussed a similar topic here

 

https://www.electricalforum.co.nz/index.php?action=more_details&id=1426235710 

 

 

 

https://www.electricalforum.co.nz/index.php?action=more_details&id=1397693765

 

 

 

The site also said the height was generally set by the retailer, but my retailer says they have no rules on it, nor does my  lines company. But many lines companies do have rules, and all the ones I have seen state in writing that the meterbox can be between 1 metre and 1.2 metres, which contradicts these electrical inspectors. . I don't disagree that it could be due to health and safety with children etc although that isn't stated as the reason. I think it is partly accessibility so meter readers don't have to bend down too far. But I could give them a chair to use, so they can sit down and work at it.  I think common sense needs to be followed when there is ambiguity like this. 

 

 

The difference here is between the rules and the law (this also includes the standards cited by the law in this case AS/NZS 3000:2007), all the electrical inspectors are concerned with is what the law says, the law does not set a minimum height for a meter box, but the rules of the lines company may set a height, the retail company may also require that you comply with the lines company rules if you want to buy power from them.

 

Basically if you want to play in the sandpit owned by the lines company you have to follow their rules, don't like them, find another sandpit, or build your own sandpit....... they may not fit with want you want, but sometimes you just have to suck it up and play nice

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. Although in this case it is solely the Electrical Inspector and their interpretation of NZS3000 that is the problem, as the lines company I am using, says they don't have any requirements, and they referred me back to the electrical inspection company. It is the Electrical Inspector that has to sign it off.  I guess I could try different Electrical Inspectors until I find one that inteoates NZS 3000 differently. Or maybe there is another way around it such as getting the main switch moved off the meterbox and onto the distribution board above it, or having it in it's own small box above 1.2m. Gotta love red tape and vague rules, laws, standards.


1597 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 332

Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 2057500 17-Jul-2018 05:25
Send private message quote this post

mattwnz:

 

gregmcc:

 

mattwnz:

 

Lastman: You could try asking a question on :https://www.electricalforum.co.nz/

Some of the people on there are involved in writing the rules so should be able to give you a correct interpretation.

 

 

 

Thanks, yes I did check that site out before, and it even discussed a similar topic here

 

https://www.electricalforum.co.nz/index.php?action=more_details&id=1426235710 

 

 

 

https://www.electricalforum.co.nz/index.php?action=more_details&id=1397693765

 

 

 

The site also said the height was generally set by the retailer, but my retailer says they have no rules on it, nor does my  lines company. But many lines companies do have rules, and all the ones I have seen state in writing that the meterbox can be between 1 metre and 1.2 metres, which contradicts these electrical inspectors. . I don't disagree that it could be due to health and safety with children etc although that isn't stated as the reason. I think it is partly accessibility so meter readers don't have to bend down too far. But I could give them a chair to use, so they can sit down and work at it.  I think common sense needs to be followed when there is ambiguity like this. 

 

 

The difference here is between the rules and the law (this also includes the standards cited by the law in this case AS/NZS 3000:2007), all the electrical inspectors are concerned with is what the law says, the law does not set a minimum height for a meter box, but the rules of the lines company may set a height, the retail company may also require that you comply with the lines company rules if you want to buy power from them.

 

Basically if you want to play in the sandpit owned by the lines company you have to follow their rules, don't like them, find another sandpit, or build your own sandpit....... they may not fit with want you want, but sometimes you just have to suck it up and play nice

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. Although in this case it is solely the Electrical Inspector and their interpretation of NZS3000 that is the problem, as the lines company I am using, says they don't have any requirements, and they referred me back to the electrical inspection company. It is the Electrical Inspector that has to sign it off.  I guess I could try different Electrical Inspectors until I find one that inteoates NZS 3000 differently. Or maybe there is another way around it such as getting the main switch moved off the meterbox and onto the distribution board above it, or having it in it's own small box above 1.2m. Gotta love red tape and vague rules, laws, standards.

 

 

 

 

tell the inspector you want to know exactly what section the non compliance falls under......

 

 


1488 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 334


  Reply # 2058054 17-Jul-2018 23:02
Send private message quote this post

I just asked an electrical inspector this question. The main switch needs to be above 1.2m. No rule on Meter board, so maybe as you say, get the main switch onto your switchboard...



14350 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1866


  Reply # 2058056 17-Jul-2018 23:24
Send private message quote this post

1eStar: I just asked an electrical inspector this question. The main switch needs to be above 1.2m. No rule on Meter board, so maybe as you say, get the main switch onto your switchboard...

 

 

 

Thanks for that, that sounds like what my inspector said. The actual main switch inside the box will be at about 1.35 metres from the ground, while the bottom of the box it is in will be at 1 meter. My inspector said the actual box it is in must be 1.2 meters from the ground. 

 

My electrician has said that there are two main switches, one on the distribution board and one on the meterboard. However speaking to the power company that allows meterboxs down to 1 metre, they say the one on the meterboard is an isolator switch for the meter which is used for the safety of the meter reader. As they are also a retailer for my lines company, and say they share the same meterboard policies, I will go back to them to see if they are able to do something or offer advice on how to manage it, and to see if things can be moved around. They have been quite helpful about it.  I see that NZS3000 2018 has just been released this last week, so not sure if that contains any clarification on this, but I doubt it. 




14350 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1866


  Reply # 2058058 17-Jul-2018 23:38
Send private message quote this post

Just thought I would post an image of the situation, to see if anyone has any ideas of an easy work around. The low box at nearly ceiling level is the distribution board with all the fuses, and I guess a main switch will be installed onto it. The blue area is where we had planned to have the meter box, which currently contains a meter and switch.  The window on the box for viewing the meter will be near the top of the blue box, and that is also about the height where the switch inside the meter box is located. The bottom of the meter box will be around 1020mm from the floor. The meterbox is currently setup outside as a temporary power box for the tradies to get power.

 

 

 


3110 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1205

Subscriber

  Reply # 2058067 18-Jul-2018 00:13
Send private message quote this post

Can you replace one of the Barceline sheets next to the switchboard with a normal gib sheet. And get the builder / designer to add extra bracing elsewhere to compensate for the removal of the Barceline sheet. Then the meter box can go at the same height as the switchboard.

You might need an engineer to custom design you a bracing solution. Instead of just using the building code acceptable solutions.

Can you install some sub switchboards, relocate some of the circuits from your main switchboard to the sub boards. So there will then be enough room in your main switchboard for the meter to be installed there.

Maybe a custom made switchboard that will fill that gap on the right hand side of your current switchboard. Which might then have enough room for the meter and your other protection devices.

Since you have 3 phase, would a pan assembly type switchboard make more efficient use of space? Again freeing up room for the meter.

Use RCBOs instead of an RCD per every 3 circuit breakers??? Free up the lowest DIN rail. Enough room for the meter then?







14350 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1866


  Reply # 2058069 18-Jul-2018 00:25
Send private message quote this post

Aredwood: Can you replace one of the Barceline sheets next to the switchboard with a normal gib sheet. And get the builder / designer to add extra bracing elsewhere to compensate for the removal of the Barceline sheet. Then the meter box can go at the same height as the switchboard.

You might need an engineer to custom design you a bracing solution. Instead of just using the building code acceptable solutions.

Can you install some sub switchboards, relocate some of the circuits from your main switchboard to the sub boards. So there will then be enough room in your main switchboard for the meter to be installed there.

 

 

 

That may not be such a bad idea, as the bracing is already engineer designed, and we have to adjust some bracing elsewhere. Potentially the wall lining behind it could be a bracing element, but it isn't quite as long.  However I would have to be careful that the meterbox doesn't end up being too high, as the main switch has to apparently be below 2 meters, and going by the inspectors interpretations, that could mean the meterbox itself.  The electrician did quote on a solution to this, by moving the meter and switch onto a larger distribution board and rewiring things, but was going to be in the thousands. But they maybe able to do a less expensive version.


1022 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 73

Subscriber

  Reply # 2081650 30-Aug-2018 20:16
Send private message quote this post

We are thinking about moving our meter and putting it in a new box, it is inside. Couple of questions (we have one of the Genesis ones in Wellington). How deep does the wall need to be for a flush box? Is it ok to put it one of those? Have had a look at a couple - is there much variation - there don’t seem to be many options?

Jon

1 | 2 
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.