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  # 2125277 14-Nov-2018 08:34
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MikeB4:

 

There are a few events that are due or over due. The whole of the South Island is high risk due to the Transalpine fault which is due to rupture, when that happens it is expected to be well above 8 on the richter scale and the entire South Island will be badly affected. The next is the Hikurangi subduction zone off the east coast of the North Island. That again is expected to be around 8 and large chunks of the North Island and parts of the South Island are at risk from the shaking and Tsunami. The Wellington fault which is linked to the Transalpine is over due and an event up to 8 is expected. If this fault is triggered by a rupture of the Tansalpine then a two thirds of New Zealand could be badly affected by that event.

 

Then there is the massive man made disaster, climate change and the whole country will be affected by increased severe weather events and coastal inundation, the impact of the inundation will be felt far inland due to changes in river flows and ground water levels. Lastly there the ever present risk of volcanic activity over a large chunk of Aotearoa.

 

 

 

Oh and one more thing, wild fires, they are a potential risk as the climate changes. Damm its depressing.

 

 

Well put, that pretty much covers everything, the new normal as the cliche goes. Perhaps companies can list all the possible factors that a homeowner can do to reduce the premium. Less or lower or further away trees, drainage changes, reinforcing, anything that lowers exposure that the homeowner can use to reduce premiums. 


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  # 2125278 14-Nov-2018 08:38
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Bluntj:

 

You clearly arent thinking of the larger picture where only one third of the Country can afford to pay so when a disaster strikes the State has no choice but to pay out for the uninsured.

 

 

I'll never understand that thinking.. People who chose to not find the money for insurance and then expect assistance really annoy me. I chose to sacrifice luxuries to make sure I have comprehensive insurance for myself and my family(contents, medical, life, etc), yet others would rather spend money on ciggies, booze, fancy cars etc than pay for insurance, and when something bad happens, expect a hand out from the rest of us.

 

 





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  # 2125310 14-Nov-2018 08:39
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driller2000:

 

Fred99:

 

driller2000:

 

Yes. 100%.

 

And the risks can and are quantified statistically whether that be EQ, flooding, coastal inundation, storm surge etc.

 

And no way should those in lower risk areas subsidise those in higher risk areas.

 

 

Except they really don't have much of a clue.  

 

Doesn't matter though, because in the aftermath of "unexpected" natural disasters, insurance company revenues always rise as they hike premiums.

 

It's a casino where the house wins.

 

 

 

 

As a civil engineer I deal with risk based assessments for hazards on a regular basis - incl:

 

  • for flooding (as it pertains to flood modelling, risk assessments, climate change adaption, storm surge and coastal hazard mapping)
  • for earthquakes (as it pertains to risk classification by area / historic return periods and how these are applied via loading codes)
  • geotechnical risks (again via investigation and specific design and how this is applied to specific properties via hazard maps)
  • and even wind risk for (again applied via loading codes.)

 

 

So to those who say they/we don't know - we do.

 

PS: And this info is also accessed by insurance companies when they assess risks and premiums - in conjunction with historic events and claims.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't really. You're drawing data from other sciences, relying on accuracy of their modelling which may or may not be right, and historical records which don't go back far enough.

 

Which isn't very good - as far as earthquake and volcanic modelling goes.  There's a far higher probability that Akl would be disrupted by a local volcanic eruption than Chch taking a direct hit from a quake, yet here we all are 7 years and $50 billion down the track, sometimes hunting for historic data to show that "we knew that could happen" - when nah - not really - we didn't expect it.


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  # 2125314 14-Nov-2018 08:48
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driller2000:

 

Fred99:

 

driller2000:

 

Yes. 100%.

 

And the risks can and are quantified statistically whether that be EQ, flooding, coastal inundation, storm surge etc.

 

And no way should those in lower risk areas subsidise those in higher risk areas.

 

 

Except they really don't have much of a clue.  

 

Doesn't matter though, because in the aftermath of "unexpected" natural disasters, insurance company revenues always rise as they hike premiums.

 

It's a casino where the house wins.

 

 

 

 

As a civil engineer I deal with risk based assessments for hazards on a regular basis - incl:

 

  • for flooding (as it pertains to flood modelling, risk assessments, climate change adaption, storm surge and coastal hazard mapping)
  • for earthquakes (as it pertains to risk classification by area / historic return periods and how these are applied via loading codes)
  • geotechnical risks (again via investigation and specific design and how this is applied to specific properties via hazard maps)
  • and even wind risk for (again applied via loading codes.)

 

 

So to those who say they/we don't know - we do.

 

PS: And this info is also accessed by insurance companies when they assess risks and premiums - in conjunction with historic events and claims.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What steps did you manage with your clients pre ChCh, Kaikoura, Wellington as you knew they were about to happen? IIRC Kaikoura was an unknown fault system. 


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  # 2125318 14-Nov-2018 08:55
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Lias:

 

Bluntj:

 

You clearly arent thinking of the larger picture where only one third of the Country can afford to pay so when a disaster strikes the State has no choice but to pay out for the uninsured.

 

 

I'll never understand that thinking.. People who chose to not find the money for insurance and then expect assistance really annoy me. I chose to sacrifice luxuries to make sure I have comprehensive insurance for myself and my family(contents, medical, life, etc), yet others would rather spend money on ciggies, booze, fancy cars etc than pay for insurance, and when something bad happens, expect a hand out from the rest of us.

 

 

 

 

Being fully insured sucks - it's expensive, I get that. But we live in a society, so even if you have a fully insured bubble for your family, what happens to your neighbours after a disaster still affects you - you might find your newly rebuilt house is surrounded by abandoned piles of rubble, or desperate members of society resort to stealing to survive because they are financially ruined (not condoning it - but acknowledging that it will happen).

 

The key for a govt is to make sure people are incentivised to insure and not expect a massive handout. EQC is quite useful for that - it means that nearly everyone can get at least a bit of disaster insurance at a reasonable flat rate. It's just become less useful as the $100k cap won't cover anyone's sum insured, so you need to get (say for $300k sum insured) $200k of market priced insurance in order to get your $100k of flat rate socialised insurance


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  # 2125334 14-Nov-2018 09:24
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I was talking about the scenario where the average homeowner (say in Wellington) is asked to pay $10-$15k per annum just for house insurance. Maybe you could afford that, but lots of households simply couldnt find that money year after year.

 

Of course when premiums are at todays levels there is no excuse to not being insured.


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  # 2125380 14-Nov-2018 09:54
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nickb800:

 

or desperate members of society resort to stealing to survive because they are financially ruined (not condoning it - but acknowledging that it will happen).

 

 

And that is why I am envious of the 1%'s who can afford an apocalypse bunker with lots of guns :-P 

 

 

 

 





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  # 2126580 14-Nov-2018 14:28
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Another thing that insurance companies tend to do with home insurance, is to increase each year the sum insured by some arbitrary percentage (such as 5% or 10%) without asking you first whether you want this.


You can, of course phone and ask not to increase the sum insured, but this takes time. So, part of what appears to be a large increase in the cost of your home insurance each year is due to the fact that the sum insured has been increased.


I realise that the rating valuation (RV) is only an estimate, but if, for example, a recent RV is $600,000 (land $300,000 plus building $300,000) what would you think is a reasonable amount to insure the building for, $300,000 or $350,000, or $400,000 or more?


The insurance companies say that the RV of the building is not an adequate amount to insure the building for, because the replacement cost of the building is always substantially higher than its RV. But it's difficult to decide how much higher than RV you need to insure the building for.


So, is it worth paying more for home insurance to get a building valuation that's substantially above its RV, when you will only need a high amount if the building is a complete write-off?


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  # 2126756 14-Nov-2018 18:33
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frednz:

 

 

 

The insurance companies say that the RV of the building is not an adequate amount to insure the building for, because the replacement cost of the building is always substantially higher than its RV. But it's difficult to decide how much higher than RV you need to insure the building for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is why some people get a rebuild valuation as well. I believe their is also a very crude calculator for working it out.


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  # 2126758 14-Nov-2018 18:42
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nickb800:

 

 

 

Being fully insured sucks - it's expensive, I get that. But we live in a society, so even if you have a fully insured bubble for your family, what happens to your neighbours after a disaster still affects you - you might find your newly rebuilt house is surrounded by abandoned piles of rubble, or desperate members of society resort to stealing to survive because they are financially ruined (not condoning it - but acknowledging that it will happen).

 

The key for a govt is to make sure people are incentivised to insure and not expect a massive handout. EQC is quite useful for that - it means that nearly everyone can get at least a bit of disaster insurance at a reasonable flat rate. It's just become less useful as the $100k cap won't cover anyone's sum insured, so you need to get (say for $300k sum insured) $200k of market priced insurance in order to get your $100k of flat rate socialised insurance

 

 

 

 

IMO it makes sense in a country like NZ, especially as we have things like ACC and state funded healthcare that service a similar purpose. But things like EQC payments need to be adjusted annually with the increased price of building. NZ is an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff country, so it is only identified as a problem, when it becomes a problem. Then we have enquiries into why the problem occurred in the first place.


  # 2126770 14-Nov-2018 19:22
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Guy I work with had his premiere jump from $1300 to over $3000 with Tower because he lived an area of high risk (Palmerston North). He has subsequently changed insurance company and paying about the original premium.

 

 

 

An insurance broker told him the Area of High Risk is anywhere south of a line drawn from Gisborne to Patea.




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  # 2126792 14-Nov-2018 20:19
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mattwnz:

 

frednz:

 

 

 

The insurance companies say that the RV of the building is not an adequate amount to insure the building for, because the replacement cost of the building is always substantially higher than its RV. But it's difficult to decide how much higher than RV you need to insure the building for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is why some people get a rebuild valuation as well. I believe their is also a very crude calculator for working it out.

 

 

Thanks, yes there is this calculator:

 

http://need2know.org.nz/what-you-need-to-do/calculator/


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