Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3
677 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 234


  Reply # 2174065 6-Feb-2019 17:10
Send private message quote this post

afe66: The idea of covering our lakes with solar panels is a definite no for me. Lakes aren't wasted space.

We have probably tens of millions square meters of industrial roof tops without anything on them.
Panel these. This has added benefit of already being connected to power grid and not need cables and infrastructure to be built near lakes.

 

 

 

Auckland Council recently put a tender out to look at using their buildings for exactly this purpose given they have a significant property portfolio.

 

It incls both roof surfaces for for generation and also walls for storage / batteries.

 

 

 

 


21902 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4602

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 2174066 6-Feb-2019 17:14
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

When I got my solar and it all looked good to use all the power it made and get a decent payback timeframe it was based on a high per unit charge.

 

Now that I am on a 17c (or thereabouts plan) per kwh and I get the monthly report from enlighten about what the inverters say they have made (I still have no way to confirm this information with an alternate meter etc) and I multiply it out and see that the solar took $50 or $60 on a good month off the powerbill it all seems a bit pointless.

 

Sure, I would have needed the roof redone eventually, and that was about 40% of the total cost for getting the solar in, but even without that the return is stuff all.

 

Add batteries in if I wasnt using all the power during the day and it becomes even more pointless.





Richard rich.ms

 
 
 
 


677 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 234


  Reply # 2174067 6-Feb-2019 17:15
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Main issue for me with PV right now is that the payback period doesn't quite stack up for any personal use case i have done the nos. on. Much like EV's.

 

BUT! 

 

This is changing rapidly with panel supply costs dropping significantly over recent years.

 

I look forward to the day when the payback/NPV stacks up and I have a solar tile roof + battery storage.

 

 

 

+ Tesla Roadster to complete the package - dreams are free :)

 

 

 

 

 

 


21902 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4602

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 2174069 6-Feb-2019 17:20
Send private message quote this post

The install price isnt dropping however. I have found that now if I want to add more microinverters to my install, I will have to add some gateway box between the breakers and the roof which is now legally required on new installs, and also there was some change with how the cable has to be run. This is even if I was to add more panels to a totally different building and they were talking about all the inverters have to run back via the same single gateway box.

 

Then there is the cost to vector to get them to "permit" you to install them. Which is absurd since they don't require you to beg permission to use power. And then all the scaffolding costs, etc etc to just chuck some panels up on the roof and get them wired in.





Richard rich.ms

15308 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2962

Trusted

  Reply # 2174085 6-Feb-2019 17:35
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

If the payback period was say 12 years that’s 8% per annum. Good value. But they are guaranteed for 25 years albeit at probably a slight reduction in input. That’s 12 years of a sound investment and then 13 years at savings on zero investment. And they won’t fail at 25 years might go another 5 or 10.



1956 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1102


  Reply # 2174089 6-Feb-2019 17:43
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

driller2000:

Main issue for me with PV right now is that the payback period doesn't quite stack up for any personal use case i have done the nos. on. Much like EV's.



I think there's a real future to Vehicle-to-grid, in particular parked outside large commercial facilities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid




15308 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2962

Trusted

  Reply # 2174101 6-Feb-2019 18:34
Send private message quote this post

kingdragonfly:
driller2000:

 

Main issue for me with PV right now is that the payback period doesn't quite stack up for any personal use case i have done the nos. on. Much like EV's.



I think there's a real future to Vehicle-to-grid, in particular parked outside large commercial facilities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid



 

I looked into this a while back, although it was just a few Googles.

 

What I took from it was... its harmful to the battery as an EV battery is not designed for this. Theoretically, if you discharge the EV battery at night into the house, its just "driving" at night. But it seems that type of usage doesn't work well for the battery. Maybe its the level of usage into the house? I cannot recall, but the end result was its not good for it. 

 

There must be many who are just short of justifying PV or EV, and if you can use the EV as a battery, and also use the PV as a charger, that surely must bridge the gap for many? It's well worth looking into, Im not electrically minded, but I definitely recall it was a bad idea. If thats the case, there may be seen gadget that can make it more EV friendly? It wasn't just a case of more cycles = battery decline, it did go beyond that I'm sure


15308 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2962

Trusted

  Reply # 2174107 6-Feb-2019 18:43
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Watched part of your video, it backs up what I said, we need special bi directional charging, which currently is too expensive. Interesting how they mentioned Uber and AirBNB to share energy.


3516 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1455

Subscriber

  Reply # 2174156 6-Feb-2019 21:12
Send private message quote this post

Best case round trip efficiency listed in that wikipedia page, was 70% So 30% electrical losses combined with more battery wear. V2G struggles to stack up economically. Even if you can get the power for free, once it has charged and discharged a battery. That power is then more expensive than just buying grid power.

Some people might charge their EV for free from a public charger, then run their house using that power. But the savings will be due to leaching the subsidies that give us free EV charging. And from not paying your fair share of lines fees.

Free EV charging won't be around forever. Especially as other drivers who need to get somewhere won't like having to wait to charge their EV. When the chargers are all occupied by the leaches.







1956 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1102


  Reply # 2175172 8-Feb-2019 19:43
Send private message quote this post

The Energy Storage Disruption
Tony Seba

"The outcome of the Clean Disruption is that by 2030

• Centralized Power Generation will be disrupted.

• Peaking Power Plants (Peakers) will be obsolete.

• All new vehicles will be electric.

• All new vehicles will be autonomous (self-driving).

• Oil will be obsolete.

• Coal, natural gas and nuclear will be obsolete.

• 80+ per cent of parking spaces will be obsolete.

• Individual car ownership will be obsolete.

• All energy will be provided by solar (and wind)"


76 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 31


  Reply # 2175541 9-Feb-2019 16:50
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Grid to vehicle and back is, IMHO, simply too damaging and inconvenient to consider doing with a personal car. Low efficiencies is one issue, but you also have problems with battery wear from all the charge-discharge cycles, and the chances of wanting to use your vehicle and finding it's 2/3 empty.

 

It might be more palatable with large vehicle pools. Still questionable and I think would need regulatory overhaul. 

 

 

 

I am surprised there aren't more supermarkets and similar with solar, given the typically tens of kW base load for lighting and chillers, every day of the year, peaking when the sun does. Low cost per kWh of grid power at that scale I guess.


3306 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 678

Trusted

  Reply # 2181043 15-Feb-2019 17:30
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

I am a great supporter of the idea that

 

- any new house built in NZ should have a north facing roof
- any new house built in NZ 5 bedrooms or larger should have at least a 1.5kw solar system installed

 

More solar production during the day reduces our demand on hydro so the lake levels dont drop as fast
Hydro can then fill in for the evening peaks as the lakes are higher for longer

 

Excess solar could go into pumped hydro storage which is basically a big battery. Pumped hydro storage is typically about 70 to 80% efficient and well used in the UK





Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




21902 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4602

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 2181086 15-Feb-2019 19:12
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

I am opposed to any installation of solar being forced onto anyone building a house. It is entirely up to them to decide if it is suitable or not.

 

For someone who isnt home during the day and would be forced to spend on the gear and then export to the grid at $sfa per kwh it would be a huge additional cost to building that would possibly make the whole project unaffordable.





Richard rich.ms

3516 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1455

Subscriber

  Reply # 2181144 15-Feb-2019 23:29
Send private message quote this post

raytaylor:

I am a great supporter of the idea that


- any new house built in NZ should have a north facing roof
- any new house built in NZ 5 bedrooms or larger should have at least a 1.5kw solar system installed


More solar production during the day reduces our demand on hydro so the lake levels dont drop as fast
Hydro can then fill in for the evening peaks as the lakes are higher for longer


Excess solar could go into pumped hydro storage which is basically a big battery. Pumped hydro storage is typically about 70 to 80% efficient and well used in the UK



UK has nuclear power that needs to run 24/7 So pumped hydro is something that can use that output during off peak times. In NZ there is either plenty of water in the hydro system, so why use water just to pump water, only to use that water later? Or there is not enough water (like currently) Meaning that you would have to use fossil fuel generation to get the power for the pumped storage. Lots more carbon emissions.

The hydro generators are only holding back water at the moment, as they are worried about a power shortage in winter. There is not going to be a summer electricity shortage.

Pumped hydro only makes economic sense, if you assume that the input power is free. In reality, it never is free. You still have to spend big money building a large dam. Then where would you build it where you can get lots of fresh water, without taking water from other hydro generators?

Load Management is far far cheaper as a method of managing peak demand. compared to building pumped hydro or peaking generators. Load Management and time of use is easy to implement via the smart meters. But then the stupid low user regulations make it virtually impossible to do so, while still giving a proper incentive to shift load.

Solar has stuff all output, unless all panels have full direct sun. So lots of houses will never be suitable for solar due to hills, trees, other buildings etc. Nevermind that doing so will just make new houses more expensive. When they are already too expensive. Meaning any savings on the power bill will be wiped out by extra purchase and interest costs to buy the house.





3306 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 678

Trusted

  Reply # 2181145 15-Feb-2019 23:58
Send private message quote this post

In some winters, lake levels get quite low so it makes sense to hold back as much of that water as possible. 

 

During the day, solar can be used to run the grid, more water is left in the lakes. Over a month or two that can make a big difference to lake levels, and delays the possibility of needing more dams to be built as no matter where you try and build a dam in NZ now its getting less and less possible with the iwi, Fish&Game etc opposition. 

 

However there may be less opposition to pumped hydro where two lakes are used, excess electricity during the day is used to pump water up hill, then in the evening it is run back down. 
To see that happen we would have to increase solar installations quite a bit. 

 

A pumped hydro company will typically buy electricity when its cheap, and then sell it back for a higher price later (evening) so it could make sense with mass solar installations when our daytime solar, wind and geothermal production exceeds consumption at which point we can store it in pumped hydro for the evenings. 

 

 

 

In germany they are making a huge success with solar - they have some of the highest rates of solar production in the world per capita, but even all of germany has less clear sky hours than invercargil (one of our worst areas) 

 

 





Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




1 | 2 | 3
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic


Donate via Givealittle


Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

A call from the companies providing internet access for the great majority of New Zealanders, to the companies with the greatest influence over social media content
Posted 19-Mar-2019 15:21


Two e-scooter companies selected for Wellington trial
Posted 15-Mar-2019 17:33


GeForce GTX 1660 available now
Posted 15-Mar-2019 08:47


Artificial Intelligence to double the rate of innovation in New Zealand by 2021
Posted 13-Mar-2019 14:47


LG demonstrates smart home concepts at LG InnoFest
Posted 13-Mar-2019 14:45


New Zealanders buying more expensive smartphones
Posted 11-Mar-2019 09:52


2degrees Offers Amazon Prime Video to Broadband Customers
Posted 8-Mar-2019 14:10


D-Link ANZ launches D-Fend AC2600 Wi-Fi Router Protected by McAfee
Posted 7-Mar-2019 11:09


Slingshot commissions celebrities to design new modems
Posted 5-Mar-2019 08:58


Symantec Annual Threat Report reveals more ambitious, destructive and stealthy attacks
Posted 28-Feb-2019 10:14


FUJIFILM launches high performing X-T30
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:40


Netflix is killing content piracy says research
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:33


Trend Micro finds shifting threats require kiwis to rethink security priorities
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:27


Mainfreight uses Spark IoT Asset Tracking service
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:25


Spark IoT network now covers 98% of New Zealand population
Posted 19-Feb-2019 09:28



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.