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6 posts

Wannabe Geek


Topic # 245413 2-Feb-2019 13:22
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Hi there!

 

I'm looking for general advice about lining an area of my garage to be used as a clean(er) environment for an electronics workshop / art studio.  From what I understand about the building code and building consent I do not require building consent to create a stud partition wall across part of the garage as the garage is an existing building and was presumably (!) built to code many years ago when it was first built and the partition wall does not modify the existing external structure.  Despite not requiring consent, whatever gets built must conform to the building code.  With confirmation from the local council I have gone ahead and built a stud partition spanning the length of the garage which I believe follows the guidelines for a loadbearing (although it is simply a partition) wall in terms of its construction, dimensions and materials.  It's attached to some additional framing which I believe was added by a previous owner for exactly this purpose, although the original partition has long since been removed.

 

So far, so good, I think.

 

Now I wish to create supports suitable for attaching a ceiling lining.  Consulting the NZS3604 2011 advisory note leads me to some confusion/ambiguity.  HB 4.4.1 states:  "Ceilings are not a requirement of NZS3604 but when they are used for such things as bracing in ceiling diaphragms ... they shall comply".  The intended ceiling height is lower than that of the very old and somewhat warped ceiling joists and so what I want to do doesn't seem to map well to the example construction types.    What I can see from the original nailing is that there were 2x4s across the approx 2.4m span at intervals of about 1.2m where lining was attached directly to or via some battens.

 

Can supply photos if helpful. 

 

Am I overthinking and is it OK just to do whatever provided it is sturdy given the ceiling is not supporting a water tank and has no opening?  If it is not then is it OK to support ceiling joists some distance below a more significant ceiling runner?

 

Any thoughts appreciated.


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  Reply # 2171779 2-Feb-2019 13:27
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Assuming that you intend to line the ceiling with gib board. Download the Gib site guide (google it). And follow its recommendations.

Diaphragm ceilings is reference to using the ceiling as part of the bracing system of the building. Which doesn't apply to you as your garage never had a ceiling in the first place.







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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 2171781 2-Feb-2019 13:36
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Aredwood: Assuming that you intend to line the ceiling with gib board. Download the Gib site guide (google it). And follow its recommendations.

 

Probably 7mm or 9mm varnished plywood since I don't want to spend lots of time stopping, sanding and painting - unless there is a better alternative.  Open to suggestions.  I'll download and read the guide since I guess plywood is a bit less dense and a bit stronger than typical Gib of same thickness (?), so whatever it suggests ought to be in the ballpark (?)

Diaphragm ceilings is reference to using the ceiling as part of the bracing system of the building. Which doesn't apply to you as your garage never had a ceiling in the first place.

 

Thanks for clearing that up.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 2171820 2-Feb-2019 14:49
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Photos of what you have would be good.

 

If the ceiling joists are still there you could fasten ceiling batten or strapping as it is also known at desired centres and fasten non structural ply or gib board to those. Strapping is dressed from 75mm x 40mm down to 70mm x 35mm. The gib guide specifies closer centres because gib needs more support. They cover metal battens as well but you don't need to go down that route. You are not aiming for a perfectly smooth ceiling.

 

Else you could just fasten plu to the ceiling joists and put in blocking where there are joins.

 

As I said, photos are good.

 

 


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  Reply # 2171846 2-Feb-2019 15:14
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furdus: Probably 7mm or 9mm varnished plywood since I don't want to spend lots of time stopping, sanding and painting - unless there is a better alternative.


For what might be a low ceiling I'd paint it white.

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  Reply # 2171922 2-Feb-2019 17:07
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Whichever lining you decide to use - gib or ply - you will probably want to hire a gib board lifter from somewhere like Hirepool or Kennards to get the panels up into place for fixing.



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 2171923 2-Feb-2019 17:11
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wally22:

 

If the ceiling joists are still there you could fasten ceiling batten or strapping as it is also known at desired centres and fasten non structural ply or gib board to those. Strapping is dressed from 75mm x 40mm down to 70mm x 35mm. The gib guide specifies closer centres because gib needs more support. They cover metal battens as well but you don't need to go down that route. You are not aiming for a perfectly smooth ceiling.

 

 

Sounds like the sort of thing I want to do but the existing joists are warped and uneven - check the photos out.  Also there is some existing timber attached at the height of the previous ceiling which makes the ceiling height a convenient ~2400mm.

 

 

As I said, photos are good.

 

 

Attached.

 

Click to see full size

 

Click to see full size

 

Click to see full size


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  Reply # 2172006 2-Feb-2019 20:50
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I'd say you definitely need battens at say 600mm *centres* - ply can't self support those distances. It's just easier to run the battens beneath the joists rather than stop and start each side of the joists. You won't notice the fact that your ceiling is 35mm short of 2.4m


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  Reply # 2172061 3-Feb-2019 07:12
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Running battens will also allow you to level the ceiling as those joists don't look like they are level



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 2172104 3-Feb-2019 09:45
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nickb800: I'd say you definitely need battens at say 600mm camera - ply can't self support those distances. It's just easier to run the battens beneath the joists rather than stop and start each side of the joists. You won't notice the fact that your ceiling is 35mm short of 2.4m

 

No doubt :-) .  The existing joists are up at 2700mm + . There is existing 'stud work' pointed out by arrows on one of the photos that sets a ceiling at 2400mm + ~35mm.  Is it feasible to attach timber at the same level along the new partition and span the left-to-right gap with say 2x4s at 1200 centres, possibly tying to the joist above the centre line and then fasten batten work perpendicular (running front to back) at say 600mm centres?

 

blackjack17: Running battens will also allow you to level the ceiling as those joists don't look like they are level

 

Or better to just batten across the joist, as you say levelling as I go and just forget about what seemed to be there before giving a higher non-standard ceiling at 2700 - 35 - levelling distance... ?

 

Seems better to have the higher ceiling, I just wonder about why and how it was that way.  Send oneself 'round the bend wondering about why and how :-)

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2172111 3-Feb-2019 09:55
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It would have 2.4 as that is standard height of give or ply

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  Reply # 2172143 3-Feb-2019 11:52
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Highly recommend Rondo for the ceiling battens especially if the joist are not level or sagging a little.

 

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  Reply # 2172144 3-Feb-2019 11:56
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furdus:

 

 

 

nickb800: I'd say you definitely need battens at say 600mm camera - ply can't self support those distances. It's just easier to run the battens beneath the joists rather than stop and start each side of the joists. You won't notice the fact that your ceiling is 35mm short of 2.4m

 

No doubt :-) .  The existing joists are up at 2700mm + . There is existing 'stud work' pointed out by arrows on one of the photos that sets a ceiling at 2400mm + ~35mm.  Is it feasible to attach timber at the same level along the new partition and span the left-to-right gap with say 2x4s at 1200 centres, possibly tying to the joist above the centre line and then fasten batten work perpendicular (running front to back) at say 600mm centres?

 

blackjack17: Running battens will also allow you to level the ceiling as those joists don't look like they are level

 

Or better to just batten across the joist, as you say levelling as I go and just forget about what seemed to be there before giving a higher non-standard ceiling at 2700 - 35 - levelling distance... ?

 

Seems better to have the higher ceiling, I just wonder about why and how it was that way.  Send oneself 'round the bend wondering about why and how :-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

You certainly could run the battens at 2400 to match the previous ceiling, but that will need to connect with the joists in the middle - perhaps by running a batten vertically down from the joist. Personally I'd just make your ceiling at 2700 - more straightforward even though you'll have to re-do the perimeter timber


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