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1005 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2297761 13-Aug-2019 23:04
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We'll ask about R4 wall insulation and having insulation on all walls (just R4 for the external walls I assume, and a lower spec for the internal walls).

 

Yes something cheap and standard for the internal walls should be fine. Serious acoustic insulation is very expensive. A pane of laminate glass for the bedroom windows would help too.

 

To be honest being our first house we'd more than likely sell after 10 years or something like that, but interesting to know about uPVC not giving much thermal benefit. I'd heard condensation was a reason to avoid aluminium.

 

There is thermal benefit over standard aluminium but the benefit over thermally broken is unlikely to be noticeable. Current New Zealand aluminium joinery usually has condensation channels unlike old joinery that dumped it onto the window sills. If you really don't want any condensation you can have thermally broken aluminium joinery installed recessed like they do in Europe which will also help improve its insulation value. See the downloads here for instructions.

 

Houses in New Zealand are usally underinsulated and underventilated including new builds. A lack of condensation on window frames doesn't necessarily mean everything else is ok with a house's humidity.

 

Awnings sounds like a smart move. The eaves will help to some extent, but awning would do the job much better when the sun isn't at its highest I imagine.

 

With eves there are a couple of months each year when sunlgiht is or isn't being blocked when it's still hot or cold so they're not perfect.

 

On the topic of kitchen, have you (or anyone else) had much experience with rangehoods. Do they work well?

 

I don't know how anyone could be without them in New Zealand's damp climate. They don't last forever so as a fixtured appliance you should think about the difficulty involved in removing and installing a new unit when the time comes. A high price doesn't always mean better quality although cheaper units tend to make more noise. Being wider than the cooktop helps. They have filters on them which are supposed to be cleaned periodically although not many people do. Ones with exposed stainless steel (instead of being concealed) tend to build up grime on the outside that is hard to clean off. Make sure it's vented outside as builders often vent them into the ceiling cavity which is dangerous.

neb

1108 posts

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  # 2297769 14-Aug-2019 00:32
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bfginger: Make sure it's vented outside as builders often vent them into the ceiling cavity which is dangerous.

 

 

A generalisation of this, if you've got anything with an extractor/ceiling fan and you didn't install it yourself, next time you're up in the attic space check where it's being vented. The vast majority of the ones I've seen are just a metre or two of ducting tossed over the nearest beam and everything ends up being absorbed by the ceiling insulation.

 
 
 
 




294 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2297811 14-Aug-2019 08:52
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Kim587: Agreed, it's a fine line between adding something just for re-sale value vs what we want. They'll be some trickier choices in that area along the way I'm sure. But certainly if it's something that would really bug us about the house, we certainly wouldn't put it in as first it's our place.

 

Actually a tiled splashback along the full width of the kitchen wall is something we were just thinking of a couple of days ago too!

 

bfginger: Yeah the serious acoustic insulation will be out of our price range I'm sure. Possibly for our media room, I remember last year seeing a few YouTube videos a year ago about how an extra wall inside the room with double drywall and studs being further apart really helps with reducing sound transmission.

 

It's great to know there's condensation channels now. It being dumped onto the sills is something I really want to avoid yes. I'd read that UPVC reduced heat loss by 40% and Low-E coating with Argon gas reduced heat loss by 20-30%, but without remembering what they're comparing it to they're pretty meaningless, and it sounds like it might not be too noticeable?

 

Thanks for the link there also. Good point about ventilation too. Our current place has an HRV system but it's always a tricky balance between sucking all the warm air out in the night and leaving the rooms cold vs moisture in the air.

 

I honestly wouldn't have thought to ask where the rangehood goes to, I just would assumed it goes outside, so that's certainly a question we'll ask the builder / have them vent it outside. neb, likewise with the extractor too, very good point, we'll make sure it's not going to the attic.


2712 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2299007 14-Aug-2019 11:01
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If the plan is to be in the house for only 10 years, make sure you give serious thought to which upgrades will pay for themselves in that time, and also which ones will add to resale value.

I suspect upgrades people can see will recoup more at resale than things they can’t. Thermally broken joinery and low e glass is something the can see and touch, thicker walls with better insulation not so much.

I’m sure I’ve read that the ROI for many of these things in Christchurch can be up to 20 years. If you are only going to have the house for 10 years, then they need to also increase the resale value to be worth doing.

My two cents.



294 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2299056 14-Aug-2019 11:12
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Paul1977: True yes. So as much as I'd love to have some solar panels on the roof, we won't have those on this build. But additions which improve our comfort etc will be heavily considered.

 

We'll also have slightly higher ceilings and a bit more stylish taps / switches etc than the standard, and little things like that which will help resale value. That's somewhere that Whitehouse seem to focus on which is nice; small / not too expensive things you can change for increased resale value.

 

Maybe we'll end up surprisingly ourselves and staying for longer, but 10 years is probably a good estimate.

 

 


2712 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2299079 14-Aug-2019 11:29
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LostBoyNZ:

Paul1977: True yes. So as much as I'd love to have some solar panels on the roof, we won't have those on this build. But additions which improve our comfort etc will be heavily considered.


We'll also have slightly higher ceilings and a bit more stylish taps / switches etc than the standard, and little things like that which will help resale value. That's somewhere that Whitehouse seem to focus on which is nice; small / not too expensive things you can change for increased resale value.


Maybe we'll end up surprisingly ourselves and staying for longer, but 10 years is probably a good estimate.


 



Yeah, we are in a similar boat - but are looking at more likely 20 years.

Some upgrades will be things that will never pay themselves back, but if they are things that you really want and you feel are worth the expense then go for it. At the end of the day you will be in there for 10 years, so you need to love it.


neb

1108 posts

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  # 2299234 14-Aug-2019 14:17
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LostBoyNZ:

Actually a tiled splashback along the full width of the kitchen wall is something we were just thinking of a couple of days ago too!

 

 

I wouldn't put in a tiled splashback, for that you want a smooth surface that's easy to clean. With tiles you're going to get grease and gunk stuck in the grout, making it a pain to keep clean. Glass or stainless steel is much easier to deal with, the best I've found is stainless curved up from the flat work area onto the wall, which leaves no corners for things to get stuck in. OTOH you don't want a wall of stainless or it'll look like a commercial kitchen, maybe stainless up to about 5-10cm to contain spills and then glass or similar above that.

 

 

We've got a continuous moulded stainless cover over the entire kitchen work area, no corners, no raised areas, just a smooth flat sheet over everything, which is perfect for cleaning, you can wipe/wash everything down at once without having to worry about water/gunk getting stick in corners, surrounds, raised drying areas, and all the other obstacles that some kitchens have.

 
 
 
 


267 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2299249 14-Aug-2019 14:28
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neb: We've got a continuous moulded stainless cover over the entire kitchen work area, no corners, no raised areas, just a smooth flat sheet over everything, which is perfect for cleaning, you can wipe/wash everything down at once without having to worry about water/gunk getting stick in corners, surrounds, raised drying areas, and all the other obstacles that some kitchens have.

 

Could you show us a photo? I'd be keen to see.




294 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2299253 14-Aug-2019 14:30
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paul1977: Ah I imagine quite a few more things would pay for themselves in 20 years yes. Need to love it is a good way of putting it yes, and chances are others will love it too unless it's really bizarre (like going with the colour scheme of The Simpsons house, although I'm sure some would love that haha).

 

neb: That sounds like a really good idea yes! I don't suppose you might be able to post or PM a photo of the kitchen? No worries if you'd prefer not to but just keen to see how it looks :)


88 posts

Master Geek


  # 2299274 14-Aug-2019 14:57
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neb:
LostBoyNZ:

 

Actually a tiled splashback along the full width of the kitchen wall is something we were just thinking of a couple of days ago too!

 

I wouldn't put in a tiled splashback, for that you want a smooth surface that's easy to clean. With tiles you're going to get grease and gunk stuck in the grout, making it a pain to keep clean. Glass or stainless steel is much easier to deal with, the best I've found is stainless curved up from the flat work area onto the wall, which leaves no corners for things to get stuck in. OTOH you don't want a wall of stainless or it'll look like a commercial kitchen, maybe stainless up to about 5-10cm to contain spills and then glass or similar above that. We've got a continuous moulded stainless cover over the entire kitchen work area, no corners, no raised areas, just a smooth flat sheet over everything, which is perfect for cleaning, you can wipe/wash everything down at once without having to worry about water/gunk getting stick in corners, surrounds, raised drying areas, and all the other obstacles that some kitchens have.

 

Definitely an 'each to their own' point - I can totally understand why people would prefer glass as it is very easy to clean. I preferred the look of the tiles and they're also cheaper. I find them easy to keep clean and you can seal the grout too to keep grease out. I did get reasonably big tiles though - I think small ones would be a pain. One thing about glass splashbacks is if you're going to go the full width you'll be wanting to make sure you know where you want plugs and other switches on that wall. Cutting a hole for those in a glass splashback wouldn't be much fun. 


neb

1108 posts

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  # 2299334 14-Aug-2019 15:50
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Delphinus:

Could you show us a photo? I'd be keen to see.

 

 

It's currently in use, maybe later tonight when it's been cleared up. It's really not that interesting in any case, just a big flat stainless steel worktop about 3m long with a sink incorporated into it.

neb

1108 posts

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  # 2299441 14-Aug-2019 20:27
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Here's the images, the benchtop on the other side is identical, just with a stove built in rather than a sink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are available off-the-shelf, e.g. from Plumbing Plus. The previous owners tiled over the SS splashback portion, although unlike several other things in the Casa de Cowboy they did a decent enough job of this one.

 

 

Oh, another nice thing about using SS is that if it does ever get badly stained you can resort first to Barkeeper's Friend to get it clean, and if it's really bad, a diamond polishing pad, which I've actually used to deal with a few scratches to the left of the sink.



294 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2299495 14-Aug-2019 22:27
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Kim587: True true about the plugs! Likewise I think if we do get tiles we'd go for big ones.

 

neb: Ah thanks so much for showing and that's a good to know about how to deal with stains too! 


2712 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2299541 15-Aug-2019 08:51
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Sorry to hijack the thread, but answers to this question might benefit the OP as well.

 

From people who have done the exercise, what was the price difference for them going from 90mm external framing and R2.8 wall insulation up to 140mm external framing and R4 wall insulation?

 

I hear it's "not much more", but what does that mean?

 

And it's not just the cost of the timber is it? To keep internal dimensions the same, wouldn't this mean a larger foundation and slightly bigger roof trusses as well?




294 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2299545 15-Aug-2019 09:03
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Paul1977:

 

Sorry to hijack the thread, but answers to this question might benefit the OP as well.

 

From people who have done the exercise, what was the price difference for them going from 90mm external framing and R2.8 wall insulation up to 140mm external framing and R4 wall insulation?

 

I hear it's "not much more", but what does that mean?

 

And it's not just the cost of the timber is it? To keep internal dimensions the same, wouldn't this mean a larger foundation and slightly bigger roof trusses as well?

 

 

Very good question, I'd love to hear people's experiences with cost on that too!


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