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1744 posts

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  #2406242 24-Jan-2020 21:06
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clive100:

 

TheMantis:

 

If the electrician has performed general electrical work then a COC is mandatory and must be completed by the electrician who did the work. Other than the time it takes to complete you shouldn't really be paying anything extra for a COC as all the testing required is also mandatory. I understand some electricians will charge as every little bit of income helps.

 

 

I agree. As it is mandatory then it is part of the labour content of doing the job & should not be an added on charge. It's double dipping in my eyes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A COC is not mandatory on every job, and Electrical Safety Certificate (ESC) is. Considering they are both legal documents $20-$35 is a reasonable cost seen they have to be stored and produced on demand for up to 7 years. A lawyer would happily charge to produce a legal document and people wouldn't say anything.

 

 

 

 


126 posts

Master Geek


  #2406477 25-Jan-2020 10:21
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gregmcc:

 

clive100:

 

TheMantis:

 

If the electrician has performed general electrical work then a COC is mandatory and must be completed by the electrician who did the work. Other than the time it takes to complete you shouldn't really be paying anything extra for a COC as all the testing required is also mandatory. I understand some electricians will charge as every little bit of income helps.

 

 

I agree. As it is mandatory then it is part of the labour content of doing the job & should not be an added on charge. It's double dipping in my eyes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A COC is not mandatory on every job, and Electrical Safety Certificate (ESC) is. Considering they are both legal documents $20-$35 is a reasonable cost seen they have to be stored and produced on demand for up to 7 years. A lawyer would happily charge to produce a legal document and people wouldn't say anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't say every job, I said when general electrical work has been performed - a COC is most certainly mandatory as is an ESC (but this isn't what is being discussed). Charging for your labour/time on top of charging for a COC is double dipping and, in my eyes, ethically questionable. It's not like COC's need to be purchased anymore. They can be stored for free online with the EWRB and even if you chose not to do this then holding them yourself isn't a significant burden - you're already doing this anyway with accounts, other business documents, etc, so it's just a cost of doing business and therefore built into your billable rate.

 

I also would't pay a lawyer both for their time and concurrently for a specific purpose (unless there is a filing charge they have no control over), either but not both. 

 

 


 
 
 
 




213 posts

Master Geek


  #2406511 25-Jan-2020 11:51
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It appears that it is quite a common practice to charge additional for completing mandatory requirements COC & ESC on top of the actual charge for the work that has been completed.  On that basic does doing this as a common practice become acceptable within the industry or if someone chose not to accept the additional cost would for example a dispute swing the way of fairness or of common industry practise ? 

 

I am retired now from an associated industry & my costs of training, registration, licensing, refresher courses, electrical testing etc were all taken into account in the hourly rate that applied to the specific work I did. I would expect if I included an additional charge for services that are already part of the work undertaken I would be challenged and / or lose further work from that customer.  

 

 





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  #2406885 25-Jan-2020 21:36
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TheMantis:

 

gregmcc:

 

clive100:

 

TheMantis:

 

If the electrician has performed general electrical work then a COC is mandatory and must be completed by the electrician who did the work. Other than the time it takes to complete you shouldn't really be paying anything extra for a COC as all the testing required is also mandatory. I understand some electricians will charge as every little bit of income helps.

 

 

I agree. As it is mandatory then it is part of the labour content of doing the job & should not be an added on charge. It's double dipping in my eyes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A COC is not mandatory on every job, and Electrical Safety Certificate (ESC) is. Considering they are both legal documents $20-$35 is a reasonable cost seen they have to be stored and produced on demand for up to 7 years. A lawyer would happily charge to produce a legal document and people wouldn't say anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't say every job, I said when general electrical work has been performed - a COC is most certainly mandatory as is an ESC (but this isn't what is being discussed). Charging for your labour/time on top of charging for a COC is double dipping and, in my eyes, ethically questionable. It's not like COC's need to be purchased anymore. They can be stored for free online with the EWRB and even if you chose not to do this then holding them yourself isn't a significant burden - you're already doing this anyway with accounts, other business documents, etc, so it's just a cost of doing business and therefore built into your billable rate.

 

I also would't pay a lawyer both for their time and concurrently for a specific purpose (unless there is a filing charge they have no control over), either but not both. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have bolded the part when you said it mandatory.

 

Low risk electrical work (as defined by the electricity act) does not require a COC, but does require an ESC.

 

I'm pretty sure if a lawyers schedule of charges included fees for producing a legal document they simply would not do the work if you didn't agree to the charges.

 

The reason why a lot of electricians charge it as a separate item is because it is a legislative requirement, this requires time to produce and store. Not only is it writing down some test results and customer information, it can involve tracking down SDOC's for the customer supplied light fitting from some obscure lighting retailer, all of this takes time and simply building in to the billable rate simply does not work. Besides showing it as a separate item tells the customer that you have taken the time and care to ensure the legislative requirements are been met.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


126 posts

Master Geek


  #2406921 26-Jan-2020 06:34
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gregmcc:

 

 

 

I have bolded the part when you said it mandatory.

 

Low risk electrical work (as defined by the electricity act) does not require a COC, but does require an ESC.

 

I'm pretty sure if a lawyers schedule of charges included fees for producing a legal document they simply would not do the work if you didn't agree to the charges.

 

The reason why a lot of electricians charge it as a separate item is because it is a legislative requirement, this requires time to produce and store. Not only is it writing down some test results and customer information, it can involve tracking down SDOC's for the customer supplied light fitting from some obscure lighting retailer, all of this takes time and simply building in to the billable rate simply does not work. Besides showing it as a separate item tells the customer that you have taken the time and care to ensure the legislative requirements are been met.

 

 

I still disagree - charging an hourly rate at the same time as charging for a specific task is not on. It has to be one or the other - not both. Plus, you need your eyes checked as you still haven't shown where I said a COC was mandatory for every job.


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  #2406924 26-Jan-2020 07:19
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clive100:

It appears that it is quite a common practice to charge additional for completing mandatory requirements COC & ESC on top of the actual charge for the work that has been completed.  On that basic does doing this as a common practice become acceptable within the industry or if someone chose not to accept the additional cost would for example a dispute swing the way of fairness or of common industry practise ? 


I am retired now from an associated industry & my costs of training, registration, licensing, refresher courses, electrical testing etc were all taken into account in the hourly rate that applied to the specific work I did. I would expect if I included an additional charge for services that are already part of the work undertaken I would be challenged and / or lose further work from that customer.  


 



If the schedule of rates is disclosed then it becomes fairly irrelevant as you've accepted it. If it isn't it comes down to normal trade practice, and the "reasonable man" test.

It's no real difference from having to pay per hour plus per drawing for a consulting engineer.

There are a million ways to price a job, you can wrap all costs up in a recovery rate / P&G or you can itemize everything. All can be acceptable if they are reasonable and overall the job comes out ok value.

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  #2406926 26-Jan-2020 07:32
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tdgeek:

 

sir1963:

 

clive100:

 

What is the typical hourly rate for an electrician & would you expect to pay extra for an electrician to supply a C.O.C  on their own work ?

 

 

 

 

about 240 volts ?

 

 

Yeah. That's not a bad charge, I'll give them a plug

 

 

There’s likely to be resistance at that rate.





Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.


 
 
 
 




213 posts

Master Geek


  #2406932 26-Jan-2020 08:46
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Handle9:
clive100:

 

It appears that it is quite a common practice to charge additional for completing mandatory requirements COC & ESC on top of the actual charge for the work that has been completed.  On that basic does doing this as a common practice become acceptable within the industry or if someone chose not to accept the additional cost would for example a dispute swing the way of fairness or of common industry practise ? 

 

 

 

I am retired now from an associated industry & my costs of training, registration, licensing, refresher courses, electrical testing etc were all taken into account in the hourly rate that applied to the specific work I did. I would expect if I included an additional charge for services that are already part of the work undertaken I would be challenged and / or lose further work from that customer.  

 

 

 

 

 



If the schedule of rates is disclosed then it becomes fairly irrelevant as you've accepted it. If it isn't it comes down to normal trade practice, and the "reasonable man" test.

It's no real difference from having to pay per hour plus per drawing for a consulting engineer.

There are a million ways to price a job, you can wrap all costs up in a recovery rate / P&G or you can itemize everything. All can be acceptable if they are reasonable and overall the job comes out ok value.

 

As the physical work involved in filling in the site description, photos as necessary & the taking & documenting of electrical test results are all done at the site & within the time charged on the job while the clock is running. As stated before these forms are available free & also the ability to complete forms online as the job is completed.  Many electricians may quote on larger jobs but rough open ended estimates seem the more common. Many just work on a "charge what I think it's worth or can stand" basic & sent a bill after the job in done.   





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