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133 posts

Master Geek
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  #2443382 21-Mar-2020 21:08
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Thank you again everyone. One last question then, Would it be legal for me to DIY install one of those towel rail timers?

 

I plan to connect it inside the new outlet switch under the towel rail.

 

https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/goldair-heated-towel-rail-timer-1000-watts-max-white/p/167704

 

 


862 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2443387 21-Mar-2020 21:20
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The short answer is no - the long answer is if you do it you're meant to get an electrical inspector to inspect what you have done and sign it off (and good luck with that) 


 
 
 
 




133 posts

Master Geek
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  #2447016 26-Mar-2020 12:01
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snnet:

 

The short answer is no - the long answer is if you do it you're meant to get an electrical inspector to inspect what you have done and sign it off (and good luck with that) 

 

 

 

 

For this one my question was more about legalities. Is it legal or not to do it yourself?


131 posts

Master Geek


  #2448523 28-Mar-2020 06:51
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NumPy:

 

snnet:

 

The short answer is no - the long answer is if you do it you're meant to get an electrical inspector to inspect what you have done and sign it off (and good luck with that) 

 

 

 

 

For this one my question was more about legalities. Is it legal or not to do it yourself?

 

 

No, it is not legal to do it yourself - in any form, inspected by an electrical inspector or not. Check here for what a homeowner is allowed to perform: http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2010/0036/latest/DLM2763688.html

 

 


3335 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2448524 28-Mar-2020 07:17
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TheMantis:

No, it is not legal to do it yourself - in any form, inspected by an electrical inspector or not. Check here for what a homeowner is allowed to perform: http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2010/0036/latest/DLM2763688.html


 



What is the difference between replacing a light switch with a dimmer module fitted and a PCU with a timer?

131 posts

Master Geek


  #2448525 28-Mar-2020 07:20
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Bung:
TheMantis:

 

No, it is not legal to do it yourself - in any form, inspected by an electrical inspector or not. Check here for what a homeowner is allowed to perform: http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2010/0036/latest/DLM2763688.html

 

 

 

 

 



What is the difference between replacing a light switch with a dimmer module fitted and a PCU with a timer?

 

Dimmers are also not allowed. If it's not specifically included in Clause 3 of ESR 57 then the homeowner is not allowed to do it.


3108 posts

Uber Geek


  #2448614 28-Mar-2020 09:56
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So does the towel rail only run when the light switch is on?
That would make it pretty much useless wouldn't it unless you leave the lights on all day...
Do your towels actually get warm/dry out if the rail is only on for very short periods of time or have I completely mis-understood?

Also, with the wattage you said it's using, wouldn't the cost of running the towel rail 24x7 be lower than the cost of buying and installing a timer.




Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler


 
 
 
 


1798 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2448617 28-Mar-2020 09:58
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TheMantis:

 

Dimmers are also not allowed. If it's not specifically included in Clause 3 of ESR 57 then the homeowner is not allowed to do it.

 

 

 

 

The way I read this (No i'm not an Electrician, But yes I am an Electrical Inspector), removing and replacing, changing like for like the home owner can do without and Inspector signing off. As soon as you go making changes, like swapping out your standard batten holder light for a recessed down-light that requires a socket in the ceiling, or changing your plain old light switch for a flashy voice activated internet connected dimmer, or fitting a heated towel rail timer, then you need to get it inspected, remember it's the words "installing, extending, and altering sub-circuits...." that trigger the sign off by an Inspector.

 

 

 

edited for clarity - It's not an Inspection, it is a sign off of the Electrical CoC by an Inspector not an Electrician


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  #2448620 28-Mar-2020 10:03
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robjg63: So does the towel rail only run when the light switch is on?
That would make it pretty much useless wouldn't it unless you leave the lights on all day...
Do your towels actually get warm/dry out if the rail is only on for very short periods of time or have I completely mis-understood?

Also, with the wattage you said it's using, wouldn't the cost of running the towel rail 24x7 be lower than the cost of buying and installing a timer.

 

Although it is connected to the lighting circuit at the light switch, it will be connected to the always on side of the light switch, it would be pointless connecting it to the switched side as it would never be on long enough to generate any useful heat


862 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2448825 28-Mar-2020 13:27
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TheMantis:

 

No, it is not legal to do it yourself - in any form, inspected by an electrical inspector or not. Check here for what a homeowner is allowed to perform: http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2010/0036/latest/DLM2763688.html

 

 

 

 

I would call a hard wired timer a fixed wired appliance. 




133 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  #2448835 28-Mar-2020 13:44
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robjg63:

Also, with the wattage you said it's using, wouldn't the cost of running the towel rail 24x7 be lower than the cost of buying and installing a timer.

 

Probably. Ideally though I don't like idea of things running all the time when not it use. To me that's looking for trouble. I have opted to just install the timer myself. Its a simple setup, comes with very clear instructions which I am sure even my a 5 year old could understand. When things are back to normal I will get an electrical inspector to inspect and sign it off.

 

Some of you may find this link also interesting. It explains what can and cannot be done:

 

https://worksafe.govt.nz/managing-health-and-safety/consumers/safe-living-with-electricity/getting-electrical-work-done/doing-your-own-electrical-work/

 

Thanks for all the help in this thread guys.


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  #2448883 28-Mar-2020 14:56
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NumPy:

 

robjg63:

Also, with the wattage you said it's using, wouldn't the cost of running the towel rail 24x7 be lower than the cost of buying and installing a timer.

 

Probably. Ideally though I don't like idea of things running all the time when not it use. To me that's looking for trouble. I have opted to just install the timer myself. Its a simple setup, comes with very clear instructions which I am sure even my a 5 year old could understand. When things are back to normal I will get an electrical inspector to inspect and sign it off.

 

Some of you may find this link also interesting. It explains what can and cannot be done:

 

https://worksafe.govt.nz/managing-health-and-safety/consumers/safe-living-with-electricity/getting-electrical-work-done/doing-your-own-electrical-work/

 

Thanks for all the help in this thread guys.

 

 

 

 

Don't want to spoil your fun, the link you have given from Worksafe quite clearly says twice:-

 

"you do not connect your work to the electricity supply yourself.  The finished job must be checked and tested by a licensed electrical inspector.  If it complies with safety requirements, the inspector will connect it, test it, and issue you with a Certificate of Compliance".

 

Yeah, a towel rail timer is an easy job and chances are you have done an alright job, but good luck finding an electrical inspector to sign off, can't say I've *ever* met another inspector who was willing to sign off on a homeowners work. But do let us know how you get on when/if you find one.

 

 

 

*did you follow all of the install instructions?

 

*did you know that one of the important notes is in direct conflict with AS/NZS3000-2007 (that's the current electrical standard for NZ) - this is typical for this manufacturer.


862 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2449196 29-Mar-2020 08:46
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gregmcc:

 

 

 

Don't want to spoil your fun, the link you have given from Worksafe quite clearly says twice:-

 

"you do not connect your work to the electricity supply yourself.  The finished job must be checked and tested by a licensed electrical inspector.  If it complies with safety requirements, the inspector will connect it, test it, and issue you with a Certificate of Compliance".

 

Yeah, a towel rail timer is an easy job and chances are you have done an alright job, but good luck finding an electrical inspector to sign off, can't say I've *ever* met another inspector who was willing to sign off on a homeowners work. But do let us know how you get on when/if you find one.

 

 

 

*did you follow all of the install instructions?

 

*did you know that one of the important notes is in direct conflict with AS/NZS3000-2007 (that's the current electrical standard for NZ) - this is typical for this manufacturer.

 

 

It's amazing how much conflicting information is out there. My dad is a licensed builder and when he renews his stuff part of the test said all of these things he could straight out do electrically without any mention of inspection or certification. I don't know where they find this information, and it's kind of worrying seeing as the same large department looks after both industries


3335 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2449242 29-Mar-2020 09:59
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The only exemption I'm aware of is for homeowners in the house they live in. That excludes landlords doing maintenance in properties they own. Plumbers can get a restricted license to do some work related to HWCs etc.

I know that builders push right through the limits as far as disconnecting and reconnecting fittings go. A relative had their lounge extended simply by moving the end wall of the house 2400mm (2 widths of Gib) and filling in the gap. They mentioned that is was only a 2 man crew. When I asked about the electrical it was "That was easy, all the switches and sockets were in the end wall so the builder just extended the wires.":



133 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  #2449535 29-Mar-2020 15:06
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Bung: The only exemption I'm aware of is for homeowners in the house they live in. That excludes landlords doing maintenance in properties they own. Plumbers can get a restricted license to do some work related to HWCs etc.

I know that builders push right through the limits as far as disconnecting and reconnecting fittings go. A relative had their lounge extended simply by moving the end wall of the house 2400mm (2 widths of Gib) and filling in the gap. They mentioned that is was only a 2 man crew. When I asked about the electrical it was "That was easy, all the switches and sockets were in the end wall so the builder just extended the wires.":

 

Yes and as I am the homeowner this is the view I have taken too. I have also replaced light switches/wall plugs/lights throughout my house over the years and don't feel adding this timer is any different.

 

Its a real grey area and depending who you ask will always result in a different answer. Bottom line is that I don't believe an electrician could have done a better job than me wiring the timer myself. Its safe, and thats all that really matters.


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