Real estate, post level 4

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#2870352 17-Feb-2022 13:54

quickymart:

martyyn:

Live within your means, if you want better either earn more money or spend less. It's not rocket science.

What about if you're already trying to do this but not getting ahead, due to the increasing costs of living?

Move somewhere cheaper? That costs money too.

Spend less? I've already cut back on almost everything I can.

Get a new job? If it pays more, great - but I have to get that offer too, and first I need to find something suitable.

I agree "it's not rocket science" but it's not always as simple as just packing up your things and calling a mover, either.

No, it's not easy. But each of us has a range of options no matter how palatable or not they are.

We all make our choices in life and we get the consequences that go along with those.

My parents left Auckland in 1975 'to escape the rat race' - it has never been easy to get ahead.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tens-of-thousands-leave-the-old-smoke-in-biggest-exodus-for-a-generation-3g7r8pcn2#:~:text=More%20than%2090%2C000%20Londoners%20quit,let%20property%2C%20outside%20the%20M25.

People leaving the city they were born in is not unique to Auckland.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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lxsw20

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#2870361 17-Feb-2022 14:14

MikeAqua:

tdgeek:

Yep, not easy. But if Governments had ticked away with housing 20 years ago, we would not be in this position. Easy to say now, but it wasn't a secret back then either, as the 3X multiplier was already on the rise

I wonder if, in retrospect, housing would have been better investment for the Clark govt than working for families or Kiwirail? That's when land value started to take off

The problem is at the time, housing wasn't the issue it is now. Wouldn't be a vote winner as such.

tdgeek

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#2870362 17-Feb-2022 14:24

lxsw20:

The problem is at the time, housing wasn't the issue it is now. Wouldn't be a vote winner as such.

I think thats it. In the vote frenzy, being a first home buyer party wouldn't have had the same sway then, get more votes elsewhere I suspect.

tdgeek

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#2870365 17-Feb-2022 14:29

GV27:

tdgeek:

Agree, but that should have began 20 years ago. Unitec?

Unitec was supposedly being developed into thousands of houses, not sure what is happening there and there haven't been many announcements recently about it.

It was a Twyford era project and there's not a lot of details on where things are at or how it is progressing.

Perhaps a good example of even if you vote for the change you want to see, you're not likely to get it as a young person.

I guess it went the same way as Kiwibuild. Too expensive (or too expensive for mass buyers) . Few who want to build = few hisses built, its that simple. Change could have begin in the Clarke then Key periods, but when its too late, its too late. I guess the current building boom is because you can sign up today for $x and not watch houses increase while you are still looking? Oh, but then we see sunset clauses so the builder can opt out and get a better price, many headwinds.

lxsw20

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#2870367 17-Feb-2022 14:30

Even when Labour tried to be the first home buyer party in the election before last, once they got in they promptly found, hmmm not an easy problem to solve afterall. I wonder if political parties will stay away from said hot potato for a while.

tdgeek

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#2870371 17-Feb-2022 14:44

lxsw20:

Even when Labour tried to be the first home buyer party in the election before last, once they got in they promptly found, hmmm not an easy problem to solve afterall. I wonder if political parties will stay away from said hot potato for a while.

Yep, it was too late, prices already too high. Next election want do you do? Give FHB's a low deposit, lower interest, then up goes demand and prices. Kill demand with various rules, and you kill buyers.

Maybe a Govt could buy an established builder, or partner one, and go farm buying and literally create subdivisions in quick time. As well as my KiwiSaver build incentive I mentioned, assist sellers of existing homes who sell to build. Stuff like this, as its too late to do anything to cut building costs by 40% or house prices by 40%, but you can create mass housing from dirt and follow that process, the score will look after itself

Yes, need more tradespeople etc etc, but start a mass scheme, they will come.

alasta

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#2870387 17-Feb-2022 15:08

It interests me when I hear people saying they can't move out of the three main centres because of a lack of work elsewhere. My previous employer had a satellite office in Palmerston North and we really struggled to find suitably qualified software developers to work there. It seems like we might have a vicious cycle of employers not wanting to establish themselves in the regions because of a lack of skilled workers, and skilled workers not wanting to move there because of a lack of well paid jobs.

I'm no fan of Winston Peters style job building schemes, but I can't help wondering if there is something the government could do to break the cycle. It might be an easy way to help out people who can no longer afford to live in Auckland/Wellington/Christchurch.

lxsw20

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#2870393 17-Feb-2022 15:17

Its the same deal in the likes of Dunedin, a bit of exaggeration because there is 100% work here, but no jobs because people won't move, people won't move because no jobs. I guess it's good, it keeps the entry price to housing only half a mill.

I've never understood why places move their admin to the likes of Auckland. It's a good way to put their wage bill up.

martyyn

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#2870413 17-Feb-2022 15:27

GV27:

I should be able to afford to live in the city I was born in. That is not an unreasonable attitude for a Kiwi to have.

I'm sorry if you think that makes me entitled, but nothing you have experienced is relevant when it comes to house prices increasing by 30% in 18 months either.

I started a reply with how I'd been to 8 different schools, lived in 9 different houses, in 5 different cities in 2 different countries by the time I was 16 all because my Dad was forced to chase jobs for the money.

But you know more about it than me, so I'll leave you to your little rant.

GV27

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#2870432 17-Feb-2022 15:58

martyyn:

I started a reply with how I'd been to 8 different schools, lived in 9 different houses, in 5 different cities in 2 different countries by the time I was 16 all because my Dad was forced to chase jobs for the money.

But you know more about it than me, so I'll leave you to your little rant.

You can write it off as a 'little rant' all you want. It doesn't change the fact that I'm right. The spike in house prices of this much in such a short period of time is totally unprecedented in modern economic times.

I appreciate it has been difficult for people historically, but objective stats and plunging ownership rates show that is harder now.

There is this desire from some to bake in difficulty in such things simply because it was not easy for them and therefore everyone else should have to struggle more than they did just to get by and it just isn't the way forward.

That has one end-game and no one ends up winning.

alasta

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#2870449 17-Feb-2022 16:33

It's really unfortunate how the housing situation is driving a wedge between generations. I wonder how many millennials are looking forward to the death of their parents because they need the inheritance?

There are a lot of things wrecking our social cohesion at the moment and this is just another one to add to the pile.

martyyn

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#2870453 17-Feb-2022 16:41

GV27:

martyyn:

I started a reply with how I'd been to 8 different schools, lived in 9 different houses, in 5 different cities in 2 different countries by the time I was 16 all because my Dad was forced to chase jobs for the money.

But you know more about it than me, so I'll leave you to your little rant.

You can write it off as a 'little rant' all you want. It doesn't change the fact that I'm right. The spike in house prices of this much in such a short period of time is totally unprecedented in modern economic times.

I appreciate it has been difficult for people historically, but objective stats and plunging ownership rates show that is harder now.

There is this desire from some to bake in difficulty in such things simply because it was not easy for them and therefore everyone else should have to struggle more than they did just to get by and it just isn't the way forward.

That has one end-game and no one ends up winning.

Whatever.

mattwnz

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#2870475 17-Feb-2022 17:17

alasta:

It's really unfortunate how the housing situation is driving a wedge between generations. I wonder how many millennials are looking forward to the death of their parents because they need the inheritance?

There are a lot of things wrecking our social cohesion at the moment and this is just another one to add to the pile.

The thing is that often people will get an inheritance later in life when it isn't needed as much. Often money like that will help people far earlier in life and is one reason I suspect that many parents are helping their children buy a house.

Wonder how long it will be before NZ gets inheritance tax like the UK, which will further affect younger generations. Someone has to pay for all this printed money and money given away during the last 2 years. Homeowners who purchased house 2 years ago have benefited with huge capital gains, but house prices potentially could now drop or flatline for some time due to rising interest rates etc.

Handle9

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#2870485 17-Feb-2022 17:35

MikeAqua:
GV27:

Like to be clear, I'm not denying the reality of the current situation, but that doesn't mean I have to just shrug my shoulders and be happy about it, or be comfortable with baking in such a deteriorating state of affairs for future Kiwis.

My general observation has been that wherever I go in the developed world, real estate in the bigger cities is horrendously expensive.

A 3 bedroom house on a plot of land in major cities is expensive. There are usually other options, like apartments, in those cities or housing relatively close to the cities.

Housing here in Dubai is expensive. We live in a townhouse which is worth NZS$1.5 million.

There are 3 bedroom 120m2 appartments available in decent areas for $NZ400k as well as 60m2 apartments in “bad” areas for NZ$150k

New York City is crazy expensive but Jersey is generally affordable and half an hour from the city. It’s possible to have a major city and for people to afford to live there.

mudguard

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#2870486 17-Feb-2022 17:36

martyyn:

I started a reply with how I'd been to 8 different schools, lived in 9 different houses, in 5 different cities in 2 different countries by the time I was 16 all because my Dad was forced to chase jobs for the money.

It's even more simple than that. Auckland is where the bulk of jobs are. I don't think anyone moved there to sit in traffic and enjoy rain for six months of the year. I'd love to live in Dunedin, or Nelson or plenty of other places. But I type 'finance' into search ads and it comes up with about twelve.

I think it's tricky to move countries, I applaud anyone that does it and enjoys it. I've no desire to live in Australia, I don't like the heat, bugs and the stuff I like doing is cheaper here. My partner is from Scandinavia, but was mostly raised here, so it's tough to compare without rose tinted glasses about living in a country quite different to here, harsh, dark winters etc.

I essentially back doored my way into a property late last year, but it took over ten years of saving for my deposit, remaining child free and being extraordinarily lucky. I'm not sure I'd get approved a mortgage under the recent tweaks either! Not to mention my salary has likely increased to a point I couldn't have got to in other towns. And then I only spend weekends in Auckland because of work.

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