airtouch for ducted heat pumps

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#2700319 1-May-2021 06:05

I had to Google a couple of things. Actron = Australian company that makes air conditioning systems locally that include zone control in their product. EC Fan = a fancy variable speed fan.

I would really prefer a system that has the heating and zoning built into the unit from the start. Daikin's Airzone VAF, Mistubishi has it as well. I talked to two separate vendors (Blizzard, Abode) who took my requirements to Daikin (keep the house at about the temperature I want given one small room warmed by the sun) and both came back with that the Airzone wouldn't do it well. The Mitsi I was told was really expensive.

I was offered Daikin VRV by Abode. Looks awesome, it's basically one outdoor unit with a separate ducted unit for each room with full individual controls. You can only heat or cool with them all at the same time, but it would be efficient and control the room temperatures very well. Only issue is it was quoted at $22K.

So a Daikin with the third party Airtouch controller seems to be the only option I can find that's going to do what I want for a reasonable price. Quoted about $13K which I think is fairly competitive.

Ducted air conditioners aren't that much more expensive than highwalls. This Fujitsu with 10kw heating is AU$3000 in Australia, without installation. Installed the price is a bit lower than here. You do have to add on ducts which aren't cheap, diffusers, copper piping, Wifi, zone controller, electrician, but I suspect a lot of the cost is the install. Our first ducted system took three guys about 15 hours, which if they were charged out at $75 per hour is $3375. I think there's still a decent profit margin in there. Imagine being up in the roof cavity in Australia for 2 days, even here the roof cavity gets up to 45 degrees, up there it could be a lot warmer.

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Handle9

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#2700320 1-May-2021 06:09

If you want VRF/VRV ask for the price for 3 pipe rather than 2 pipe. You can then heat or cool on each unit independently.

timmmay

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#2700321 1-May-2021 06:10

Handle9: If you want VRF/VRV ask for the price for 3 pipe rather than 2 pipe. You can then heat or cool on each unit independently.

Nah that would be even more than $22k, way more than we want to e pay.

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#2700322 1-May-2021 06:12

Your other alternative is to find a Temperzone installer. They are locally manufacturered and available through all commercial channels. They are by far the most commonly installed ducted unit in NZ, just not normally installed domestically.

timmmay

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#2700323 1-May-2021 06:52

Handle9: Your other alternative is to find a Temperzone installer. They are locally manufacturered and available through all commercial channels. They are by far the most commonly installed ducted unit in NZ, just not normally installed domestically.

Their smallest units are larger than we need, 14kw, so probably more expensive. Their smaller units are Hitachi. Might be better off with a firm who specializes in domestic. Thanks 😀

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#2701503 4-May-2021 08:29

Just had my Daikin ducted and zoned system installed (finally) last week. The "within 4 degrees" mentioned is "set point +/- 2 degrees". So if you set it for 20, it'll sit between 18 and 22.

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#2701534 4-May-2021 09:33

geoffwnz:

Just had my Daikin ducted and zoned system installed (finally) last week. The "within 4 degrees" mentioned is "set point +/- 2 degrees". So if you set it for 20, it'll sit between 18 and 22.

Interesting. That's the Daikin Airzone? How is it generally - easy to use, decent app / web control? I do like the idea of a solution provided wholly by one manufacturer.

I'm told AirTouch tries to keep temperatures within 2 degrees, so plus or minus one I guess.

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#2701563 4-May-2021 10:05

timmmay:

geoffwnz:

Just had my Daikin ducted and zoned system installed (finally) last week. The "within 4 degrees" mentioned is "set point +/- 2 degrees". So if you set it for 20, it'll sit between 18 and 22.

Interesting. That's the Daikin Airzone? How is it generally - easy to use, decent app / web control? I do like the idea of a solution provided wholly by one manufacturer.

I'm told AirTouch tries to keep temperatures within 2 degrees, so plus or minus one I guess.

The App is AirBase. I'm only using the basic unit on/off, zones on/off and temperature setting. But it's supposedly easier to set scheduling etc from the app than the wall controller.

Since it's only me and the kittens most of the time, having the whole house at one temperature is ok. Though I do need to find out where the sensors are. Seems there are two fitted. One that reports the house temperature back to the app, the other does not. It was set to read from the one that doesn't report back.

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#2701568 4-May-2021 10:16

If you can't see the sensors they're probably inside the ducted unit in the roof and in the wall controller. I thought the point of Airbase was there was a sensor in each room and it controlled the ducts to reach the temperature you want. Most people like bedrooms cooler than a lounge.

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#2701571 4-May-2021 10:23

timmmay:

If you can't see the sensors they're probably inside the ducted unit in the roof and in the wall controller. I thought the point of Airbase was there was a sensor in each room and it controlled the ducts to reach the temperature you want. Most people like bedrooms cooler than a lounge.

That was my assumption for the sensor locations.

Given where the wall controller is located in the bedroom hallway it works for keeping the lounge warmer than the bedrooms if the door between the two areas is closed.

I don't believe I have the option for differing temperature zones, only the ability to shut off zones when not in use. Though they did recommend not ever shutting the lounge/dining zone off as that's the biggest zone and becomes the spill zone vs the smaller ducts in the bedrooms and bathroom.

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#2701580 4-May-2021 10:30

Ah interesting, so it's a zoning system without individual room temperature control. That's a lot better than not having zones, gives you the capability to tweak things if required, but the Airtouch solution is more automated.

We put transfer grills into the bedroom walls so air can move from the bedroom outlets to the return grill. Cutting doors short as most recommend seems like a sub-standard way of doing things.

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#2701600 4-May-2021 11:13

timmmay:

Ah interesting, so it's a zoning system without individual room temperature control. That's a lot better than not having zones, gives you the capability to tweak things if required, but the Airtouch solution is more automated.

We put transfer grills into the bedroom walls so air can move from the bedroom outlets to the return grill. Cutting doors short as most recommend seems like a sub-standard way of doing things.

Essentially, yes. In my case, that works well as there isn't significant temperature difference between the various rooms/zones.

I have two return ducts, one either side of the hallway door as that is the most common separation point. So the lounge/dining/kitchen "Living Zone" is on one side and the 3x bedroom + 1x bathroom zones are on the other side. I haven't really experimented with closed bedroom doors other than the room that's currently set to off so I'm not sure what it'll do. The windows are old wooden ones that do not seal so there's no shortage of exit points for the air, it just won't end up recirculating.

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#2701625 4-May-2021 12:01

Multiple return ducts is meant to work well. One thing I've noticed is sometimes the heat stays near the ceiling, different diffusers are sometimes required to push it down if the diffuser and return are both in the ceiling. One vendor that does more commercial has said floor level returns are difficult which is why most companies don't do them in domestic, but they can be the key to having a really effective ducted unit. High wall units blow the heat down which makes them effective.

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#2701719 4-May-2021 14:17

timmmay:

Multiple return ducts is meant to work well. One thing I've noticed is sometimes the heat stays near the ceiling, different diffusers are sometimes required to push it down if the diffuser and return are both in the ceiling. One vendor that does more commercial has said floor level returns are difficult which is why most companies don't do them in domestic, but they can be the key to having a really effective ducted unit. High wall units blow the heat down which makes them effective.

Yep, consideration was made to placement of the outlet vents so as not to have air going directly from outlet to return and bypassing the actual rooms. Seems to be working so far with it set on 18 and the last few colder nights.

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#2702859 6-May-2021 11:02

geoffwnz:

Essentially, yes. In my case, that works well as there isn't significant temperature difference between the various rooms/zones.

I have two return ducts, one either side of the hallway door as that is the most common separation point. So the lounge/dining/kitchen "Living Zone" is on one side and the 3x bedroom + 1x bathroom zones are on the other side. I haven't really experimented with closed bedroom doors other than the room that's currently set to off so I'm not sure what it'll do. The windows are old wooden ones that do not seal so there's no shortage of exit points for the air, it just won't end up recirculating.

@geoffwnz That is interesting, the Daikin website says "Individual Temperature Control". How do they achieve this is each zone doesn't have a dedicated sensor to know what the temperature in each zone is?

Can you set a different setpoint temperature for each zone?

EDIT: Actually looking at the Daikin site again, you should have a wall controller in each zone. A "Main" controller in one zone, and then either a "Think" or "Lite" controller in each of the other zones. The controllers have the temperature sensors built into them. This is for the Daikin "AirZone VAF" system.

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