New house build - orientation for sun

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#2624749 21-Dec-2020 06:24

D.W:

My question is more around thermally broken alum vs uPVC, and if one is cheaper than the other. Also, if I have sufficient ventilation (such as HRV) is that going to significantly reduce condensation if I just had standard aluminium frames with double glazing?

Last time I looked at them pricing was similar, but check the market. PVC is white, aluminum can be colors. PVC is fairly robust, but can need a bit more maintenance if it gets something on it like bird droppings you may have to use jif to clean it. I've had PVC for ten years, it's very rare you need to do that, but does happen. I prefer PVC, but will get an aluminum / fiberglass front door for the color.

Not having had it, my guess is a ventilation system will reduce condensation if you have non-thermally broken joinery but not eliminate it. Regardless of what you do there will still be moisture inside, and the joinery will still be colder than ambient causing condensation.

I'd go thermally broken or PVC which doesn't need it. Additional cost not really that much when you consider the life of it.

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Paul1977

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#2624819 21-Dec-2020 09:54

D.W:

We've opted for concrete brick for cladding, the manufacturer's specifications say a raked out joint is not recommended for external use, however our build specs specify raked joint. I've queried this and pointed them to the specs, so hopefully we can do something else there without any further cost.

Raked seems to be the "go to" for some reason in NZ (maybe it's easier?), even though brick manufacturers say it's the worst for water penetration . My understating is the reason for this is that a raked joint leaves a ledge for water to sit on, and also raking isn't a "tooled" joint so doesn't compress the mortar so is more susceptible to water penetration. I don't know if this is an actual problem in practice, as thousands of modern brick houses are raked and you don't hear about problems.

That said we went with a rolled/concave tooled joint because that's what the brick manufacturer specified, and also it's meant to minimize efflorescence - we have black bricks and black mortar so minimizing efflorescence was important for us. We weren't charged more for the different joint, but if we hadn't specifically asked for it they would have done a raked joint.

EDIT: @D.W I'm not 100% certain, but I had a feeling that a concrete brick might have needed a different type of mortar to a standard clay brick as well - you might want to check if that's the case for yours or not.

D.W

722 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2626135 23-Dec-2020 23:44

D.W:

Thanks for all the previous feedback, we've decided to reduce the overall size to free up some $ for other parts of the build (ducted heat pump for bedrooms (not shown on the plan yet), some additional landscaping, attic storage, tiled flooring in kitchen/bathrooms etc).

Here is our current plan:

Any other feedback appreciated. Currently considering our options to battle the west sun facing into the living areas.

I'm considering a slight variation to the above, where we move the fridge to the other side of the kitchen bench, allowing us to shift the island further south and then add an additional wall/door to separate the entry from the kitchen area. Anybody have any thoughts on this? We're a bit undecided, but ultimately think it might provide us with a bit more privacy.

Also wanting to tile at least some of the dining area, but need to come up with something that looks OK. Ideally we'd like to keep the "living" area carpeted, but don't want it getting too small. It was slightly easier to do when the island was slightly further north. Alternatively we could just tile that entire area and use a rug in the living area instead.

rogercruse

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#2626179 24-Dec-2020 08:18

Further suggestions - we just spent 18 months thinking and tweaking our house plans, so you can imagine how addictive it can be!

Sliding Door to Media Room
You could add glass panels to this door. Giving you visibility but still provide privacy.
Laminate flooring for Kitchen, Dining & Family
We originally planned for polished concreate but changed to a decent wood-effect laminate. Hardwearing and easy to keep clean, etc. https://carpetcourt.nz/product/laminate/quickstep-impressive-classic-oak-natural/
Patio Door to Master Bedroom
Security / Mozzie doors for external doors
We've added these to our place provide a breeze without the insects and secure enough to slow down Billy the Burglar.
Bedroom 2 & 3
You could increase the floor space by having the wardrobe for each room in the same wallspace. See my floor plan:
Solatube in Kitchen
Check that you can have this installed by the kitchen hob... it looks a little too close to the roof ridge.

D.W

722 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2626184 24-Dec-2020 08:36

Thanks, they are good suggestions.

1. We're likely to stick with solid doors for 2 reasons: they will probably be left open most of the time anyway, and we'd potentially use this space for family to stay in if they came to visit (we have this semi-regularly). Solid doors would give them a bit more privacy

2. Any benefit to laminate over tile? We're OK with the temperature of tiles (have them in our current place)

3. We specifically removed the patio door to master because we have the same setup in our current place (sliding doors to patio) and we never use it. Not sure if resale or similar is worth consideration here.

4. That could be useful, will consider it

5. We considered that, however a concern for us was having a bed sharing the wall with the toilet, so we opted for a layout that allowed the bed to go at the other end of the room. edit: thinking about it, we could probably instead position the beds on the east wall (under the window, not as practical to access curtains, but not the end of the world). If we then tried to insulate the sound as much as possible between that bedroom and the toilet we'd probably be OK. Another option could be to make the toilet part of the bathroom, and move the bath to share the bedroom wall (nobody would use this at night when people are sleeping) and place the toilet in the north-east corner against the garage wall.

6. If the solatube can't be installed we'll live without it, our plan was to have it above the island if that'll work

Paul1977

4983 posts

Uber Geek

#2626209 24-Dec-2020 09:29

D.W:

Thanks, they are good suggestions.

1. We're likely to stick with solid doors for 2 reasons: they will probably be left open most of the time anyway, and we'd potentially use this space for family to stay in if they came to visit (we have this semi-regularly). Solid doors would give them a bit more privacy

2. Any benefit to laminate over tile? We're OK with the temperature of tiles (have them in our current place)

3. We specifically removed the patio door to master because we have the same setup in our current place (sliding doors to patio) and we never use it. Not sure if resale or similar is worth consideration here.

4. That could be useful, will consider it

5. We considered that, however a concern for us was having a bed sharing the wall with the toilet, so we opted for a layout that allowed the bed to go at the other end of the room

6. If the solatube can't be installed we'll live without it, our plan was to have it above the island if that'll work

Just to chime in with my opinions (everyone has a different one):

Your proposed change of the fridge location and extending the wall doesn't allow any clearance to fully open the fridge door. IMO you should always allow for a fridge door be able to open as fully as possible.

1. I'd go glassless doors as well, if for no other reason than light control. I don't know if you are planning any sound control for the lounge, but with cavity sliders the walls on either side can't have any acoustic insulation in them since they obviously need to be hollow - but if that's not a concern then cavity sliders are less obtrusive (especially if they are left open most of the time).

Another thought for your lounge is about whether it will be used for media consumption? If so, think about where the TV will go in relation to windows and doors. Where possible we made sure we had no windows or doors directly opposite TV locations to minimise reflections without having to close blinds/curtains.

2. I think it's personal preference. Tile has the potential to crack I suppose, but I don't know how common that is with modern slabs. We just went with vinyl plank in kitchen/dining and all wet areas (other than ensuite, which we tiled).

3. We chopped and changed between having a slider in the master bedroom. In the end we went with one mainly for a fire exit at that end of the house. I think it would appeal to future buyers but you'd then also have to put a patio there which is another additional cost.

4. Practical, but a bit ugly?

5. Your way also gives larger wardrobes, and I quite like that the doors are recessed from the main room a little (like the room has a mini entrance).

6. I wonder if there's any way you could do a skylight in the kitchen rather than a solar tube, but I'm not sure if a skylight is doable with your roofline? I have a colleague who's building and reckons a skylight doesn't cost much more than a solar tube (if installed during the build).

I'd also consider a solar tube in your hallway, as it looks like it will get very little natural light from the adjacent rooms. I semi-regret not putting one in our hallway.

Additional thought: Why not extend the ensuite shower to the full width of the ensuite and have a big 1.0 x 1.8m shower in there? Just move the towel rail to the left a little and you'd have enough room.

D.W

722 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2626210 24-Dec-2020 09:38

Re: 3. the fire exit is a valid point, also another entry for moving large furniture etc. in/out of the house would probably be good. Will look to add that back in and run a path from existing patio around to it.

Re: 5. Yes its a bit of a tricky one, if we go with smaller wardrobes, any additional floor space is slightly nullified if we have to then add additional storage in the room (e.g. extra set of drawers).

Re: media consumption in lounge, we'd most likely be adding the TV to the eastern wall, that seems to have the best layout (rather than using north wall, and having the back of a couch near the doorway). It is opposite the western window, however we primarily use this in the evenings rather than daytime, so we can probably live with having to close the blinds/curtains.

Re: extending shower in ensuite, I have considered that, will just come down to extra cost and if we can afford it (we're already stretched). Would be great to get a 1.0 x 1.8 with a second shower head in there.

Paul1977

4983 posts

Uber Geek

#2626213 24-Dec-2020 09:48

D.W:

...will just come down to extra cost and if we can afford it...

I know that feeling! Every upgrade on it's own isn't that much, but they add up bloody quickly.

D.W

722 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2626222 24-Dec-2020 09:56

Paul1977:

D.W:

...will just come down to extra cost and if we can afford it...

I know that feeling! Every upgrade on it's own isn't that much, but they add up bloody quickly.

Yep :( Especially once we looked at thermally broken windows, low-E glass, ducted heat pump etc. etc. Those are killers.

So far we've locked in the ducted heat pump, and trying to get to the other stuff.

D.W

722 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2626442 24-Dec-2020 16:58

Paul1977:

Your proposed change of the fridge location and extending the wall doesn't allow any clearance to fully open the fridge door. IMO you should always allow for a fridge door be able to open as fully as possible.

Re: this point, I think we could perhaps just keep the fridge in its original position. The island wouldn't "align" with the bench, but it would still sit centred to the bench including the fridge space, which I think would be OK?

bfginger

1244 posts

Uber Geek

#2626579 24-Dec-2020 22:16

D.W:

OK I think I'll go with the solatube over the kitchen island if its going to be able to be installed there without issues.

We've still got a few decisions to make, if anybody has any advice around this (whether we should prioritise some over others if we can't do everything) would be great:

- Go from 2.4 to 2.55m stud height

- Thermally broken window frames

- Low E glass (just on west side of house perhaps to keep cost down? Would like a way of battling the sun coming into living areas during summer)

- We've got pricing for a ducted heat pump which we're keen on, with an optional upgrade to include HRV. We're not sure if this is worth it or not

- Concrete brick vs clay brick. We like some of the concrete brick colours more than the clay brick, from what I can see otherwise they're comparable price-wise, concrete is stronger, but doesn't last as long (still 60+ years)

There are differences in price and performance between different thermally broken frame profiles. The Fletchers ones were really expensive. APL were cheapest. Builders will have a normal supplier so if it happens to be ex-Fletchers the quote may be eye watering unless they've reduced prices. Fletchers and Nulook have been merged under the "Altus" brand, Nulook thermally broken are the "AllSeasons" profiles. Ask to see fabricator quotes as mistakes are frequent and many quote for standard frames when asked for thermally broken as there is very little interest, most builders won't know the difference. Altus provided instructions on how to install their thermally broken frames receded for better thermal performance but the average builder would be confused by how to do that. Ask for the "Avon" handle with 4 screws if not going for multipoint locking (Nulook and Fairview support that) as two screw handles are affixed too weakly and always eventually fall off. If not going for the Avon I'd ask for two handles per window and have them pointing towards each other as fabricators tend to have them pointing in random directions. I'd never go without laminate glass on glazed doors as toughened glass doesn't live up to its name but be aware lam glass looks a bit different.

Not all low-e is equal. Think about asking for Metroglass XCell, Fairview/Glass Relate Solace or Viridian LightBridge with thermal spacer.

Does the ducted heat pump run R32? It's unlikely to be worth getting if it doesn't. External units for ducted heat pumps are often very noisy so be considerate of placement near bedrooms and neighbours. BY HRV do you mean Cleanaire HRV or the HRV company that advertises on TV?

Dark bricks will really heat up in summer and some of that will pernitrate the insulation.

D.W

722 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2626581 24-Dec-2020 22:24

bfginger:

There are differences in price and performance between different thermally broken frame profiles. The Fletchers ones were really expensive. APL were cheapest. Builders will have a normal supplier so if it happens to be ex-Fletchers the quote may be eye watering unless they've reduced prices. Fletchers and Nulook have been merged under the "Altus" brand, Nulook thermally broken are the "AllSeasons" profiles. Ask to see fabricator quotes as mistakes are frequent and many quote for standard frames when asked for thermally broken as there is very little interest, most builders won't know the difference. Altus provided instructions on how to install their thermally broken frames receded for better thermal performance but the average builder would be confused by how to do that. Ask for the "Avon" handle with 4 screws if not going for multipoint locking (Nulook and Fairview support that) as two screw handles are affixed too weakly and always eventually fall off. If not going for the Avon I'd ask for two handles per window and have them pointing towards each other as fabricators tend to have them pointing in random directions. I'd never go without laminate glass on glazed doors as toughened glass doesn't live up to its name but be aware lam glass looks a bit different.

Not all low-e is equal. Think about asking for Metroglass XCell or Viridian LightBridge with thermal spacer.

Does the ducted heat pump run R32? It's unlikely to be worth getting if it doesn't. External units for ducted heat pumps are often very noisy so be considerate of placement near bedrooms and neighbours. BY HRV do you mean Cleanaire HRV or the HRV company that advertises on TV?

Dark bricks will really heat up in summer and some of that will pernitrate the insulation.

Yes the heatpump is R32, this is the model: Daikin FDYAN140AV1/RZA140CV1. External is near garage, and as reasonably far away from neighbours as we're going to get.

Re: HRV, the heatpump quote included an optional $4K addon for a Daikin VAM-GJVE 'Heat reclamation ventilator (HRV?) system'

We're going with a grey brick.

And thanks for the info re: glass/framing, I'll make sure I get all the specifics once we've got a formal quote available.

bfginger

1244 posts

Uber Geek

#2626612 25-Dec-2020 05:59

" If not going for the Avon I'd ask for two handles per window and have them pointing towards each other as fabricators tend to have them pointing in random directions."

I meant to say if going for the Avon.

Pages 151-159

https://connect.daikin.co.nz/sites/default/files/2020-09/PCVAU1706-Daikin_VRV_General_Brochure-LR_0.pdf

The VAM-GJVE looks like a good addon.

16kW is a big heating system. How many m2 is that for?

D.W

722 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2626630 25-Dec-2020 08:19

189m2, however it was based on an earlier plan for a 213m2 house, and we downsized so could potentially downsize on the kW at the same time.

D.W

722 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2638456 19-Jan-2021 21:59

Just looking at north-facing (also street facing) windows, we want to maximize the sun that comes in, but also the privacy (during the day, in the evening we'd just close the blinds). Any thoughts regarding tinted glass, reflective, or something else? If we go for the dark tinted glass are we going to lose the benefit of the sun brightening/warming the room? The same for reflective?

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